• glimsglims August 2014
    Hey everyone! It's time..

    Science for the Masses (@Cassox and @glims), partnered with Dangerous Things (@Amal) are opening up a limited time pre order of the first magnets specifically designed to be used as implants.

    This is basically a closed prerelease. The link below leads to a preorder form on the Dangerous Things website that allows only you guys to get the magnets before we start selling them to profesional body mod artists. This is only for a limited time and this link is the only way to get to that website. Please don't share the link with anyone who is not on this board. The reason for this is that the price that we are offering for the beta  is less expensive than what we will be selling it to modders at. This is just for you guys.

    Now, let's discuss the details a bit.
    The magnets are 3mm x 1mm neodymium with Titanium Nitride coating. By using a unique process cooked up by Cass, we have managed to get these magnets to maintain a nice high gauss strength. This became a point after we found that most coating processes have a tendency to reduce the strength of the magnets.
    The magnets have been tested for fouling resistance, cytotoxicity, resistance to shear horse, and have also been tested on humans :) We've compared this magnet to parylene coated magnets and other well known providers in all these categories and it comes out head and shoulders above anything that we have had available to us.

    For what it's worth, this is the first coated magnet that I have felt comfortable putting inside my body. Anyone who's read any of my posts knows how I get about biocompatable coatings..
    Anyway, here's the link, have fun :) If you guys have any questions, I'll be checking in regularly to answer them.

  • glimsglims August 2014
    here is the link to the pdf that we will be giving to the proffesional modders and piercers on the affliliate list.
    it goes into a little more detail and has a breakdown comparing different coating types

  • Jack_SylvaneJack_Sylvane August 2014
    Whats the stenght about it? Is it like the ones for magicians from Haworth? How much does it lifts?
  • glimsglims August 2014
    It's an N52 rated magnet, which is the most powerful that you can get.
    It's more powerful than the Haworth magnets for two reasons. WHile the Haworth magnets are bigger, they are also coated in silicone. That thick coating means you are reducing your strength just because there is so much crap in the way. 
    The second thing is that the silicone process requires using heat. We have found that applying heat to the magnets has a tendency to reduce their strength.

    Once we realized this, we had to come up with a work around to allow us to coat the magnets and keep the strength.

    These are the strongest implantable magnet by mass that you can purchase.
  • Jack_SylvaneJack_Sylvane August 2014
    WOW!!! Im getting this on Wednesday , if they sold out please keep one for me, Im totally getting this!
  • Thanks a lot, Will order this as soon as I have money.
    (within 14 days, will it still be availible then?)
  • How long will they be availible?
  • glimsglims August 2014
    I know that we want to make sure everyone in the community has a chance to get one and I know that some people dont check the boards every day. I'll talk with Amal and I'll make sure everyone interested gets in before the cut off.

    So probably about 2 weeks :)
  • glimsglims August 2014
    @Jack_Sylvane our first batch is product size.we wont run out ;)
  • DarkDJ117DarkDJ117 August 2014
    Hey there, thanks for this.  I just ordered one and will likely install it soon after I receive it.
  • AmmonRaAmmonRa August 2014
    Congrats to @cassox and @glims, I know you guys have been working on this for ages.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    Just ordered mine. Super excited about it! I'll post when I get it implanted
  • pibpib August 2014
    I'm going to echo @AmmonRa here. @glims, @cassox, and @amal, Thank You for all of your hard work on this! I've been looking forward to this release, and can now look forward to getting these in (hah!) my hands. 
  • RavenRaven August 2014
    Looks awesome!! Looking forward to some hands on... or in hands.. testing :D
  • amalamal August 2014
    Hi guys, thanks for the support and enthusiasm!

    Sorry I'm not on the board as often as I'd like to be, so if you want to get my attention use the @amal method in your messages as this is the only email notification that appears to work for the board.

    We have yet to come up with an ETA for the end of the pre-order beta, but we'll make sure everyone who's interested has a chance to get one.

    Amal ;)
  • CassoxCassox August 2014
    Thanks for the congrats! I'm feeling... relieved actually. I've trialed so so many damn magnets. I've tossed away probably a thousand different failed magnets at this point.
  • BirdMachineBirdMachine August 2014
    I'll be in for two once I get back from some cons and get paid (so the 15th). SUPER excited for these!! Thank you for all of the work and research.
  • AT2CyclopsAT2Cyclops August 2014
    Nice, can't wait to try these.
  • glimsglims August 2014
    Thank you everyone for your props and support. We're really happy that we could bring these to you :)
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    Congratz those who worked on the project! I'm sure your hard work will pay off. Y'all wouldn't have any video of the magnet in action would you? I'm anxious to get it and have been thinking about it since I ordered mine lol
  • glimsglims August 2014
    @amal has a video of the implant. I'll hassle him to get it uploaded. Once we get the batch, we'll take lots of videos.
  • amalamal August 2014
    Heh I sent you that vid already @glims, did you not get it? I can upload to youtube later tonight.
  • glimsglims August 2014
    @amal wha!? nope. tbh, i may have missed it in the move... sorry! youtube link?
  • amalamal August 2014
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
  • amalamal August 2014
    Haha that's all the video I've got of the actual installation.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    picking up things would be cool. Sorry im so interested lol

  • amalamal August 2014
    @glims - actually that's a fun test. To be fair, we'd have to choose a common material, shape, and test outside the body to ensure the same level of treatment for all magnets... magnet, 5-10 sheets of paper between, then pick up target weights.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    It'd be great to see your magnet compete to someone else's. Preferably demonstrated already implanted.
  • Hi guys.

    My piercer wants exact information on exactly how to implant the magnet.
    Does anyone have a document or any such information that describes in great detail?
  • amalamal August 2014
    We will likely come up with a suggested procedure guide for the most common area (fingertips), but for now this is up to the artist. Because we don't have a bulky coating, the procedure can be vastly simplified over installing other magnets, some of which require the use of painful tissue retractors.
  • amalamal August 2014
    @pkp336 the issue with a head to head comparison when magnets are implanted is that it would not really generate valid test data. This is because the implant depth of one magnet may result in more tissue between it and the target weight than another implant at slightly less depth - it's too subjective of a test to get real good valuable comparison data. Of course, if one magnet vastly out-performs another, then the nuances if tissue thickness may not matter, but I'd rather plan out and perform a precise test if we're going to bother testing :)
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    @amal that makes sense. I also would like some instructions on where to put the magnet in the finger. My mother is a doctor so I am going back to my hometown to have it done so I need to know the best spot in the fingertip to implant it. I know one of the hackers here posted a video guide but I can't remember where it is
  • amalamal August 2014
    @pkp336 In the past, people were placing magnets to the side of their finger pad, so the magnet was basically sticking out the side of their finger. This was actually recommended due to the face that these magnets were so large (coating thickness) that putting them under the pad made no sense. As you can see in the video, the placement for this small 1mm thick disc is essentially directly under the pad of the finger. The only issue one might have is migration due to mechanical forces... like a rock climber probably wouldn't want it directly under a load-bearing finger pad.

    Sorry to be so vague, but unlike glass RF transponders, placement of magnets is still somewhat up in the air, and since the m31 is robust and small, it can be placed almost anywhere the user would like it to be placed. To get right to the point, we have not yet evaluated the placements most common to the biohacker community and cannot give a specific recommendation at this time. Should the opportunity arise to discuss and evaluate these kinds of placements with a medically trained surgeon, we will definitely publish those results.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    @amal that is one thing I worry about because I do rock climb lol. I'll keep researching about it then
  • amalamal August 2014
    @pkp336 I figured with your photo :) I'm going to put mine in my wrist, just behind the small bone that protrudes under the knife edge of the palm. I'd take a pic and post it but I can't seem to find my phone at the moment.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    @amal Are there sufficient nerves in that area? I really want it in my finger because I also fix iPhones so I'd like the ability to pick up those pesky screws. I may just go ahead and put it in the pad of the finger like glims. @glims after having it in your fingertip how does it feel when pressure is applied?
  • glimsglims August 2014
    it feels fine actually. it's very thin. not issues grabbing or carrying stuff. I was in a lake yesterday and did a lot of climbing up the sides of the boat using the structure, not the ladder, and there were no issues.
    also, while it was implanted deep initially, there was minor movement in the initial healing and its on the side now, right where I want it.
    as a rock climber, you're probably using your index and your middle finger a lot more than the ring finger. between that, the robustness of the device and the small size, i highly doubt you'll have any issues.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    @glims how deep should it be implanted? And rock climbing uses a surprising amount of the last three fingers as well. I'm just worried I'll feel the magnet being squeezed and it hurting/breaking. How much do you feel the magnet when doing every day tasks and how much while gripping things?
  • meanderingmanmeanderingman August 2014
    Hi guys, 

    Thanks a ton for putting all the work into this. Just ordered several for me + friends. I have one of Brian Deckers older cylinder magnets so I am looking forward to comparing it.

    @amal, why the wrist location? Are there advantages to having it there that the fingers don't have?
  • amalamal August 2014
    @meanderingman The only advantage I can think of for having the magnet in the wrist is that it will be out of the way. I know people have not had issues with finger placements, but I've also seen some people with serious problems and rejecting in the finger pad location. Likely, rejection was due to choking - blocking blood flow to dermis cells "above" the magnet, which is probably due to the magnet being too large for the area (thick coating). The m31 is so space efficient I'm sure I could put one into my pinky pad and not have a problem... but I'm interested in the wrist location just because only a few people have tried it there so far and it seems like a low risk area.

    Testing tactile sensation on that part of the wrist shows that it is just as sensitive as the pad of the finger when lightly dragging objects across the skin's surface, however small "vibration" type movements of an object stuck directly to the skin are not picked up as readily as the finger pads. It's that back and forth movement that the finger pads are so good at picking up, and truth be told, I will probably end up being disappointed with sensitivity and end up getting another m31 in one of my fingers :)
  • glimsglims August 2014
    @pkp336 You want to watch cassox's videos on magnet implantation. While he doesn't have the speed of the piercer in the video above, he is a pro (med tech) and he does a great job breaking down how you should get your magnet in the interstitial subcutaneous layer. it's quality work.
    basically, you want it in between the muscle and the skin. that's a whole 'nother thread and i think it's covered in the vids way better than i could breakdown in a paragraph or two.

    @meanderingman ou are going to notice that it is not as powerful as the cylinders. however, this is because its not nearly the same mass.
    if you want that same level of umph, stack them, do a dual nerve implant (ring finger and index finger) or wait for our next development coming soon that will increase strength without changing mass....
  • meanderingmanmeanderingman August 2014
    Ok. how does the strength compare? Is sensitivity going to be on the same level, or are strength and sensitivity directly correlated? I currently have an the cylinder in my ring finger, so the m31 will be index. Even if its not as powerful thats ok, the smaller footprint will be worth it on a dominant finger. The cylinder is bulky and wouldn't want something that size on my index. 

    What does the timeline look like for the next version look like and what kind of increases do you think you will be seeing?
  • CassoxCassox August 2014
    Actually, I'm going to be re-doing the magnet videos and instructional as well. When I first did it, it was really just based on knowledge etc. from my proffesion but I think I can add a lot more important information and some hints. Yes, I am far slower than the piercer. Then again... I was doing it to myself one-handed with my non-dominant hand. All in all, I'd say I'm the dread fucking pirate Roberts.
  • pkp336pkp336 August 2014
    Ok cool thanks @glims. And @cassox Kim looking forward to your new video
  • 10Th_Legion10Th_Legion August 2014
    Hey guys new to the forum's, but i have been reading like a man possessed the last few days haha 

    @glims I was just wondering if you guys will be sending these to Australia at all? It seems Steve Haworth will be in my neck of the woods in November, seeing as he wont have these yet i was hoping i could get him to install them. No problem if you guys dont send them this way, he is only here for 2 days so the chances of me getting in are slim -_-
  • amalamal August 2014
    @10Th_Legion we will ship pre-orders world-wide, but eventually we will close down sales to just our partners and body modders who want to become partners. Steve has his own magnets, so he may not want to install other magnets, but something tells me he'd rather get paid for a procedure than not, so if you pick up an m31 as a pre-order beta customer, then it's worth a shot asking him.

    We will also be looking for qualified partners in Australia and other areas who can perform installations of the m31 and will be adding them to our partner map under a new classification.
  • 10Th_Legion10Th_Legion August 2014
    ahhh fantastic! i emailed a place here and it seems that they are getting both Steve and samppa von cyborg in. I think samppa is going to be teaching them how to do the implants as he is with them for a week, steve is there for only 2 days. Here is their email address, so maybe with some luck they will be happy for the source :D

    [email protected]
  • Ordered.  This is going to be fun
  • MattGuyMattGuy August 2014
    Just ordered two, I'm psyched! Has anybody started feeling electromagnetic waves with these yet? I'm curious to know if they provide enough sensation to feel the same EM waves you can pick up with larger magnets?...I realize this is something I should've figured out before ordering but I'm too excited to wait and will just hope I get decent EM sensitivity.
  • jamcar23jamcar23 August 2014
    When will the Dangerous Things partners be getting the magnets? Will there be any difference in cost? I'm debating whether I should buy my own and have a partner implant it for me, or just wait for him to get them in. I don't think I'm ready to do a self-implant.

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