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i am i just don't want to do it till I know I can see it through the red ink. It would go under my tattoos eyes.
A friend of mine implanted one in his forearm 10 days ago, he says it's not every bright, and only visible in complete darkness. I would avoid anywhere with thicker skin.
Hey hey. Yeah, I have two that have been in the dorsal surface of my right hand for something like 6 months now I think. Cyberlass has one as well that's been implanted about the same length of time. I've never seriously hit them on anything. I think a sharp strike on the back of my hand could break them as the underlying meat and bone doesn't have give the way we do near the thumb triangle. It'd have to be a pretty focused strike. I think they'd survive a bat, but something like a ruler would do it. If it did fracture though, I seriously doubt both vials would break. You'd want to cut them out as soon as possible either way.
If the gas did get released, I'm not sure I'd even bother going to a doctor. I'd probably drink a crap load of water for a week. I'm not sure if taking iodine would even matter here.
In terms of migration - yes. I have one that repositioned close to my wrist. I think it's because of how my hands move.. it just pushed it there over time. It's found a spot it wants to stay now though. I used to be able to really move it around under the skin but it's since sealed into one spot. I'm not sure.. but I don't think it would migrate from a spot that wasn't subject to movement and forces. Probably.. it'd be ok in the forehead.
The solution to stopping migration is parylene. It binds to tissue. Alex could do a run that has the very ends coated in parylene. We talked about this, but keep in mind Parylene isn't cheap and if you do something like masking off the center the cost increases even higher. Does anyone know anything about lumen meters? How sensitive etc? If Alex made a shape other than cylinder we could have an up and down side. Like a cross shape or something. In that case, we could apply a reflective undercoat so more light is focused peripherally. I don't know how much of a gain we could expect though. Would it be twice the light? It seems intuitively correct but feels wrong. Ha. If I had a way to measure lumens easily, I'd try it out to see if the gain is worthwhile.
I feel the question is not can it help the question is can it hurt? I don't think it can in the dosages that are found in iodine tablets. How ever you may know more than me, still worth discussing incase it does happen God forbid. I can't imagine how to explain that to a doctor....
- I definitely don't think iodine would help. KI pills are to protect the thyroid from uptaking radioactive iodine only. Since Fireflies contain tritium (and tritium doesn't decay into iodine, obviously) there would be no benefit at all.
- Regarding a reflective backing, yes, I suspect a doubling of the apparent light output is correct (well, minus whatever is lost do to the fact that any backing will not be perfectly reflective).
From real world experience, I can say that glass capsules coated in parylene stay put quite firmly where placed in the body. I also wonder how necessary masking any section of the capsule would be since parylene is clear. Nothing is totally clear, of course, but would the light lost do to the tiny bit of opacity from parylene be enough to warrant the cost and effort of masking a section of the capsule? (For anyone interested, have a look at
... the bottom right image is of a person holding a thin sheet of parylene... quite transparent).
edited May 2016
I find myself across the country. /side tangent
This one and another have some ambitious plans about implanting some fireflies into our faces. Two of them. My (long time friend, now) girlfriend here on the board will be getting a matching set at the same time to mirror. Regardless of any other motives, before it's asked, we were getting these as friends and fellow grinders before we became closer. ^^
Advice for this is going for two people. Please help :o
The intent is to put two side by side, in a pattern most resembling an equals sign with perhaps a 5 to 10 degree tilt, downwards facing the nose, about 5mm apart. They will be approximately a centimeter below the eye socket on the cheek.
I will be getting them on my right side of my cheek, she will be putting hers mirrored, on the left. ^^
Is close proximity going to make this a nightmare? Is 5mm enough distance between them in regards to implanting? They should see pretty much no mechanical stress, right?
Face meats bad about accepting? What is good/bad here? (I have like, no access to anything useful to research with for the foreseeable future :c)
We know it's going to bleed a lot. We don't care if it hurts.
, here's my take on your plan, for what it's worth.
- First, the placement sounds pretty awesome. Not something I would do, but very cyberpunky and I like it.
- You do want to make sure they don't actually touch one another, as abrasion between them would be bad. 5mm separation would likely be fine.
- I personally would wait for the likely release of ones that have some kind of anti-migration tech incorporated if they're going to be in a formation like that. Then again, face tissue doesn't seem to have the loose connection between the dermis and the underlying layer of tissue, so I suspect migration would be less of an issue in that area.
- That area of the body seems to me like it will be harder than some other locations to get set at a good shallow depth. Not impossible, I'm sure, but something to be aware of.
- There are extra risks when getting closer to the eye. Also, be aware that even if it is low level, this will be exposing your eye to radiation. The lens of the eye doesn't take kindly to radiation. Probably not really something to worry about, but worth mentioning, I guess. Low levels of beta and, according to Wikipedia, even low level x-rays, though.
- Regarding any concern about the face being bad for accepting, well, microdermal anchors on the cheeks are pretty common, along with numerous facial piercings, so I don't think that'll be a concern.
The lead oxide layer should mask all radiation, right? I understand it could be compromised, but in the situation it should be removed asap anyways. >~<
I fully intend on them not touching in vivo, and with relatively no movement or physical stress to the location don't anticipate much if any migration via physical displacement of muscles to be a huge deal... Color me naive though...
Inexperienced when it comes to using injectors... I am just trying to get it beneath the skin and no deeper, correct? :o
The first thing that comes to my mind is will it keep you up at night? Will you be able to "see" the light if it's close to your eye?
- The lead oxide glass layer will mask some of the radiation, but it takes more than that to shield "all" of it, particularly when it comes to x-rays. I'm not saying that this is dangerous, but you should be aware of it, especially since you'll have an inescapable radiation source near one of your eyes. Again, I don't think you'll have any problems, so please don't think I'm saying that. I'm going to be implanting one (or more), so I'm not personally worried. I'm also someone who has a small (but growing) collection of "radioactives" in my living room, though, so perhaps I don't worry enough about it ;)
- Regarding the glow keeping anyone awake at night, I don't think that's something to worry about. Even if Zerbula could see it (which I doubt considering where the placement is being described), it would still be very faint. Even if it is bothersome at first, I'm certain it's something that a person would adapt to with time. And the Fireflies could always be removed if it is too much of a bother.
holy shiz. this is fricking awesome. MUST BUY NOW. any detail on how to properly situate these in terms of how deep under the skin you go? is it like magnet implants? or deeper? a diagram would probably help... i'm probably missing the entry where you explained it, apologies in advance.
I'm planning on putting it just on the 'horizon' of our cheeks; the intensity shouldn't be bright enough to go through our skin there and then through our eyelids, I don't think...
same way you implant a RFID tag, except you want it shallow to show better through the skin. ^^ There's links to two different procedure guides in the wiki.
On that note... Any thoughts on how to help tent the skin on the face? &_& Right next to a fresh implant 5mm away?
took me a while but i found em
edited May 2016
- If I had to tent tissue on the face, I'd use tape. Clean the skin really well (obviously) to remove any natural oils, make-up, whatever, then place a loop of some really good quality tape on the skin centered on the area to implant, then pull outward on the tape. If the tape is good enough (high quality duct tape or good quality medical tape), it won't pull free easily and instead will lift the tissue. I actually used tape once in this way on my arm for an RFID. Do keep in mind that unless it's medical tape, it isn't going to be sterile. If the tape is sticky enough, you could just tent it the one time and do both implants one after the next before pulling it free.
My green Firefly arrived today. I'm going to put it under my geiger counter and take some video. I'll post that later tonight. On Saturday, I'll implant and have a video of that, too :)
Edit: Here's the geiger counter video...
i just had the idea of implanting it between the clavicle (over the chest). Would it be possible there or are there any "dangerous" places? ( I am not very good when it comes to medicine etc, i am studying maths)
edited May 2016
I implanted mine about 3 hours ago. Here's the implantation video:
A couple of observations:
The injectors are very tight compared with others I've used. This isn't a problem at all, but the plunger was noticeably more resistant to moving.
The needle is held to the injector using a Luer lock (or something very similar;
care to comment?) Do be careful in removing the cap as you could easily unlock the needle from the injector.
The needle, while larger than an RFID injector needle, isn't TOO much bigger.
The larger hole did not really bleed at all while implanting but there seemed to be more bleeding in the half hour or so following implantation compared to my experiences with RFID injectors.
The implant was easily visible immediately following implantation, but very quickly some swelling developed and it is currently much harder to see. It will become more visible as that swelling reduces over the next couple days.
All in all, not overly painful and pretty easy to do. Essentially the same as implanting an RFID.
The line going the bicep is actually a really cool idea... i think i ill do like five of these going down my forearm along my radial bone.
thanks for the video! My whole needle fear is still keeping me a little bit away from this even though I really do want one.
I think this is the best choice for what I would like to do on my arm. I'd love to see yours when you you get it.
edited May 2016
I went to a professional for my installation. I'm very glad I did because I passed out. Again. But that's just me, it wasn't a painful implant, hardly. Toward the end of the video you can see the piercing artist tap the implant with his fingertip and feeling it move around under my skin is what caused me to pass out.
Aside from passing out in a chair it went really well. This wasn't the best angle but you can definitely get an idea of how much pressure was necessary to push this large needle in.
Once I was on my feet my piercing artist said, "I don't want to sound creepy or anything but I'm going to take you into a dark bathroom now." He's a funny guy and he was as excited to see it as I was.
I've only had mild to low swelling. It hasn't affected my typing speed. I've been able to spot it in the dark consistently despite the swelling.
One thing that my piercer noted was that the veins in the back of my hand made it unwise to implant between the bones of my middle and ring finger. This is where I originally intended to get the implant. Instead we decided to place it between the bones of my middle and index finger where there wouldn't be a risk of hitting those big veins.
What's the proper way to embed a YouTube video?
edited May 2016
Nice video. Thanks for sharing it.
I actually have mine in the location your piercer suggested against. No problems, but I do perhaps take too many risks.
Regarding the implant moving around under your skin not sitting well with you, I can understand that. People occasionally ask to feel my implants through my skin and I see how squeamish some of them get once they feel it there under the skin, and it isn't even in
. :) I'm the opposite, though, and really enjoy that particular sensation. It makes it more real somehow.
As to how to embed a video, just paste the full url of the video. You can't use the shortened url, though. Just paste in the entire url from the address bar of your browser. Don't use the link tool or anything. Just paste it as plain text.
Quick update on the healing of my own Firefly. Like an RFID injection, the wound is so small that it closed very quickly. The shape of the implant can be seen at all times where I put it. It's subtle but I like it. The glow is not quite as bright as I was hoping for, but it can be seen easily in darkness. There's so little tissue on the back of the hand that I don't know how I could have gone any shallower without being intradermal. No complaints, though, because it is still pretty damned cool. I mentioned in one of my videos about hoping to be able to feel the click of the inner vial against the outer one as I moved my hand. Alas, I cannot, but I CAN hear it if I hold my hand up to my ear :)
- Believe it or not, I had a pretty healthy dislike for needles prior to my first implants. It was part of my initial reason for forgoing lidocaine for anything. While I still don't love them, I have come to a point now where they only cause me to sigh a bit. Well, unless we're talking about fingertips. When it comes to those, while I know I will (I need to replace an m31), I absolutely do NOT want to shove a large needle into a finger ever again. The nightmares (yes, nightmares) stopped after a few weeks, but I honestly start shaking when I think about it too much.
Sorry for the long delay in answering questions, as much as I spend lots of time on biohacking, it's still just a side project, sometimes my day job takes priority.
yeah, you are right about the injectors. They are stiffer than the
injectors for the RFID chips, unfortunately they are the only ones I've been able to source in the right size. If anyone knows where I can get better ones, let me know (your 3d printed ones?). And yes, you can unscrew the needle from the handle of the
injector, so be careful to pull, not twist when removing the cap. The clipping mechanism is a bit similar to a
Luer lock, but not as well designed.
As to reflect backing, yes, I even tested a couple of tritium lights with reflective backing while designing the current ones. light is a bit less than double because some light is blocked by the phosphor. But yes, it is a viable way to make the lights appear brighter. Other options include increasing the about of gas, either by making the implant bigger or by pressuring the gas. Both methods have their own issues.
The main issue with having a reflective side is that you really want a flat implant, so that it can't turn over once implanted and then not be visible at all. having a flat implant is certainly an option, but means you can't implant it with a needle like the current design. I wanted to make the first version as easy as possible to implant. But yes, having other shapes is possible.
just put some biobond on it to keep it from spinning and you can keep the cyllindrical form factor but add in a reflective backing. what do you think about that?
I dreamed about these last night. I can't wait until payday so I can order one.
that would work for holding the cylinder in place long term, but how long does biobond take to bond with tissue? i.e. could the implant get flipped immediately after implanting before the biobond has a change to take hold?
it might still be worth the risk, but it would make immediate after care more important.
I'm trying to figure out where to put a firefly tattoo. My first choice is under the top of my shoulder, but since it would be right on top of a shoulder joint, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Second would be about an inch and a half under the collar bone, parallel to it (and with eventual matching one on the other side). I like those two areas initially because my skin there is so pasty pale it's translucent and I think the implant might really shine in that area. However, I figure better to ask people who know more than I do about the viability of implanting there.
Third choice is upper left arm, but I'm kinda meh about it.
, regarding your shoulder, there are a couple things to consider. What I would do is place your fingers on top of your shoulder and rotate your shoulder through its full range of motion. If you can feel the tissue in the area you want to implant contorting under your fingers, it's likely not a fantastic spot to place it. That having been said, implants that lack anti-migration tech such as these will ultimately settle into some location that is more stable. So it will find its way to a spot that works (hopefully), even if the exact spot you place it isn't so good. The firefly on the back of my hand very quickly ended up shifting to the side of where I placed it and seems to have found a nice little groove where it now rests quite happily. You definitely want to be sure that where you place it won't subject it to a bunch of force when you rotate your arm, though, because until it finds its way to a more neutral location, it will cause you pain (and perhaps risk rupture of the implant, thought I think that's unlikely). Something else to consider is whether or not things like a backpack strap might put undo pressure on the implant (if you ever use backpacks).
Under the collar bone sounds like a neat location. Nothing else to really add to that. I just like it :)
Do take what I say with the understanding that I'm by no means a medical professional or even a body mod professional. I'm just someone who has implanted himself with a fair number of do-dads :)
how is the position on the back of the hand? Is it distrubing / does it feel weird there?
could you please post a picture of the "
nice little groove"? I am currently deciding wheather i would make it on the back of the hand or were RFIDs normally are.
, I feel nothing disturbing at all. I have been known to fiddle with this particular implant more than I do others (for some reason, I've always enjoyed feeling implants under my skin) and if I slide it more toward the knuckle and then flex my hand a bit, the implant will, under the pressure of the overlying tissue, slide back into that groove I mentioned, and I can definitely feel that happening, though I don't know if I'd call it disturbing or weird in any way. It's not something that would ever happen if I wasn't purposefully moving the implant out of its natural resting place.
The groove seems present in both of my hands between the all of the metacarpals just below the knuckle on the back of the hand. Right below the knuckles, there seems to be a more pronounced, for lack of a better term, groove. Use your fingers to push in that area and you'll feel it. It is less pronounced between the index and middle finger; I feel more muscle(ligature?) there than the other two. I would feel very confident implanting just below the knuckles between any of the fingers.
Not sure if this is the proper place to ask, but I just ordered one and noticed it sends via auspost? What's the shipping time look like being sent to New York?
, shipping to Ohio from Cyberise.me is about a week and a half if that helps at all.
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