So you want to put a magnet in your finger…

13

Comments

  • i talked to cassox  and he says he has an order of parylene coated ones he's getting ready for sale... so that's prob my best bet. also getting the injection / scalpels kit from him... so i think i'm good. will update upon implanting it :)

  • I have a question, I'm new to this forum, but it seems these magnets you can get like say, from supermagnetman.net, have a parylene coating. That's what will have these neodyms bio-proofed, am I right? So buying N52s like these should already be bio-proofed, right? That's at least the impression I'm getting from several discussions.
  • Those are coated in Parylene C, which is technical biocompatible. there is a small chance you might have a sensitivity to it. More importantly, it's only a 20-30 micron thick coating and has terrible mechanical properties (scratches off easily). Many people have (so far) had good experiences implanting these, but you do so at your own risk. Make sure the coating isn't compromised prior to implant.
  • Ah, okay, thank you. I think since I have plenty of time to decide, I'll weigh whether I wanna do a disc, or maybe try injecting a weaker PTFE at first.
  • Something you might wanna consider: V&P seems to have caught onto the odd habit some crazy fuckers have of sticking their product inside their fingers, and so the more popular neodyms have minimum orders that can be pricy. You might be able to organize a group buy though.
  • or just buy from @Cassox... he's already got an order. he's just finalizing things before he can have them for sale.  I am going to wait for his because of his track record and the fact that he cares about the product he sells. ( so in terms of the parylene, you can bet it would be biosafe).  
    Or you could buy from a company that forces you to buy 200, and then have to get rid of them later...   either way man, it's your call.
  • I've had my magnetic implants, Parylene C coated 3mm x 0.7mm disc magnets which I got from V & P Scientific, for 5+ years now. Their stirrer magnets are great quality and were designed for biological use, though not quite in the way we use them.

    I originally had 2 implanted but had to remove one in 2012 due to growth of fibrous tissue and calcium deposits around the magnet, but the bio-compatible coating seemed intact and the growth seems to have been spurred by an incident of strong physical impact to the implant site that dislodged it.

    The implant location of the magnets is something many seem to give less attention than coating but I think is equally, if not more, important given that it dictates longevity, comfort, and sensitivity. My implant site of choice is flat on the finger pads. You could look up our paper for more details on that ("A Novel Human-Machine Interface using Subdermal Magnetic Implants" on IEEE).

    I also would recommend not going for smaller weaker magnets which greatly reduces the mechanical activity induced by external magnetic fields and hence reduce the sensory experience.

    :)
  • First Ian Harrison, now @jawish.  Warwick's students are just filing in here like there's no tomorrow :D
  • Reporting on new location for magnet: wrist. On Saturday, drew and I got parylene coated cylindrical magnets implanted in our wrists with the intention of pairing it with a wristband with copper coil we're designing and will undoubtedly be talking about more soon. We went to Brian Decker out in NYC who's a super nice, professional guy. I got mine placed on the underside of my wrist. drew got his placed on the top side. Report: intense sensitivity. So far, it's everything I could have hoped. I do believe this is a good alternative or additional location for a magnet.
  • I admit that I am incredibly interested to know the long term outcome/viability of the new location. Personally due to my current job, a magnet in the finger would not be a possibility but I would like to get one somewhere else. 

    You say that you experience intense sensitivity, can you elaborate? How does it differ from a magnet in your finger? 
  • Can we have photos/diagrams of the implant location? Size, strength, coating? Has it caused any range of motion issues etc?
  • Document your process and procedure!  Materials, methods, and results!
  • Right-o. 

    @Tellari - Sensitivity: At this point, I'm able to pick up slightly heavier objects than with the finger magnets and notice fields that it seems can't be picked up on by finger magnets. HOWEVER, I do not have finger magnets so everything I'm saying is based off comparing data with @drew. I'll keep you posted with how things go.

    Range of motion: My range of motion has not been hindered. It looks a little weird when I stretch my hand back and there is some mild discomfort then as it has not fully healed. 

    See photos here: http://imgur.com/a/Ikf0L

    At the PureBodyArts studio, I had the procedure done. After determining a safe location for the magnet, Brian sterilized the location then used a scalpel taken out of sealed packaging to make an incision and space under the skin then inserted the sterile magnet and sealed the wound with suture and bandage. 

    Result: my wrist can pick up bottle caps, yo. I am also super aware of some of my electronics. 

    As for the size/strength/coating: waiting on email from Brian for exact stats. The only thing I remembered from all the questions asked was that it was parylene coated. Will post more once I have more info.


  • Once it is healed, I would like you to do a series of motion tests comparing sensation in the two wrists. I'll email you later down the road with some protocols.
  • You say that you can pick up bottle caps. I am curious, do the standard finger magnets have this same interactive property? I also wonder about how it will affect working on electronics or future projects that may possibly be susceptable to magnetic fields. 
    Anyone have any thoughts?

    I know you mentioned that you are still waiting on all the dimentions and what not, could you please include the depth that the magnet is implanted at? It will allow comparison with future implantations. Maybe we can figure out exactly what the benefits and differences are at each depth.
  • The magnets are 3mm x 5mm neodymium cylinders coated with a thin parylene shell.  The gauss rating is 48.
  • @tellari - I'm not sure exactly how far under the skin but it's fairly close to the surface though not close enough to see the color of the magnet under normal light. Check out photos from the previous post to get an idea. As far as what it can pick up, @drew can also pick up bottle caps with his finger magnets. He and I will have to do some comparisons and maybe post some pics one of these days. 

    @glims - awesome. I look forward to it.
  • so cassox is taking a while. any idea where i can get some magnets? @thephackt? maybe some extras. 
  • edited April 2014
    So, as @thephackt mentioned, I got a magnet implanted in my outer-wrist.

    Compared to my finger's magnets, which are both the same type as this one and @thephackt's one, it's disappointingly insensitive. I can barely feel any fields from my coil, while both @thephackt and my fingers can feel them just fine.

    Another friend of mine also got one in the same place as me, and has had pretty much the same experience.

    We are now scheduling to head back to Brian Decker's to have them moved to our inner-wrists, like @thephackt's.

    If nothing else, at least we now have new data points :)
  • edited April 2014
    Just getting into magnets and such thanks to that recent CNN article, something I've been wondering about is how sensitive are they and can you make them more sensitive? From what I've read it seems like you can pick up certain magnetic fields if you're close enough (furthest usually being a meter or so from what I understand), does adding more magnets make you more sensitive and is there anything else you can do to add to the sensitivity?

    Also, from what I understand (which isn't a whole lot mind you), your lips are also a very sensitive part of your body. Has anyone ever tried an implant on their inner lip similar to where people get tattoo's? Would that be at all possible or would the amount of various stuff like saliva, bacteria, food, etc. make that a bad idea?
  • edited April 2014
    @Shellhound There have been a few different discussions on magnet placement (see above few posts), orientation, size, 'cups', combinations, and such however I didn't participate in them and don't know what their outcomes were but if you use the magnets category on the right menu of this site you will find all the information you'll need.

    @thephackt I'll be getting my magnet soon but now might have to change the intended position! Great information about new placement. Is the magnet touching tendon? And if so does it feel like that's where the sensation is coming from or is it just localized directly around the magnet?
  • @MattGuy ; so what i just dip it in rubbing alcohol and it's sterile?
    but yeah i'll give it a shot reading the blog thanks 
  • Well rubbing alcohol won't kill all pathogens but it would definitely help, I'm unsure what the best way to sterilize your implant is. Also @Saal said that @cassox is no longer recommending the dental resin layer.s
  • @MattGuy

    Hey! The magnet is not quite touching tendon and causes no noticeable range of motion issues or discomfort at this point. When I use it a lot, there is mild soreness but I suspect that's because it's still not fully healed under the skin and my body just isn't used to being used in this way. It protrudes a little further than I thought it would, but hey, I'm way tiny so I doubt that would be the case for everyone. The sensation is definitely around the magnet. If you go with it in the wrist, let me know how it works out. I'll be reporting again next week in case anything changes and hopefully get protocols from @glims to test out motion.
  • If you get the chance can you see what it feels like lifting weights? Just stuff like curls, squatting, etc. You don't really have to use weights if you don't have any but just go through the motions of it. Thinking about getting mine in my wrist but idk how that'd work out with me exercising.
  • @Shellhound  Got ya covered.  Been doing weight training the post few days and did HIIT yesterday morning with no problem.  The first few days it sucked just to turn my steering wheel (granted, I don't have power steering). Now, no discomfort at all. Hope that helps! 
  • @thephackt  Thanks for the info. I'll only be implanting 3mm x 1mm disc magnets so the protruding shouldn't be as much(if any) of a problem. One in the finger and one in the wrist so I'll also be able to make a comparison. Interested to see if the smaller magnet is still effective. 

    Also, anatomy isn't my area of study but it seems like the magnet might be near the ulnar nerve. If so it might be worth watching for ulnar nerve pinching. There's a path separate from the carpal tunnel.....googling.....called Guyon's Canal or Guyon's Tunnel. If it's on/in that it'd be worth watching for signs of nerve pinching. Probably won't occur and if it does it's not a huge deal, basically carpal tunnel syndrome with a different nerve and removal of the magnet should fix it at that point.

    TL;DR  Watch out for pinched nerves, they cause tingliness and such.
  • @thephackt ah awesome, that was one of my major concerns about getting one there. Glad that there's no issues with that.
  • Could you elaborate more in the issue of potency loss? To what extend is the effect reduced? (I don't expect qualitative answers just your thoughts). It is a little demotivational having to repeat the removal/insertion every now and then ;D.
  • The main issue is the coating. Many of us really do want the magnet but the coatings on offer are just not always safe. Our body chemicals have a way of eating them away. What we need is a coating that is bioinert, biocompatible, fracture resisstant and one that can be applied without heat, as neodymium looses its magnetic properties at a certain temp. So what are our options here? Titanium ? No, this will corrode too, studies are showing implants to corrode. Gold plating? No too thin. Silicone? No it may tear. Parylene? No too thin.
    One option that I am currently looking at is bioinert ceramic made of zirconium dioxide. This stuff is seriously resistant to bio chemicals and could be a good candidate for coating our magnet implants.
    Zirconium bioceramic is also an ingredient in "bone cement" used by surgeons.
    Anybody have any thoughts? Surely via a collective brain storm, and some experimentation, a long lasting, safer magnet can be created.
This discussion has been closed.