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A few biomagnet questions
Hello everyone, I am new to the bio hacking community, but I have been experimenting with electronics, circuitry, and building all sorts of stuff including, welding frames for different projects, forging, and blacksmithing, and have been extremely content with that for quite some time. Then I discovered the community of grinders, and people seeking to enhance there senses in very creative ways, suddenly I wasn't content with my past haha. So I'm planning to implant a magnet into my finger in the very near future as a start. I have a few questions I couldn't find very good or easily understandable answers to. 1 Cylinder magnets VS disk magnets
1 a Can you still sense magnetic fields very well with a cylinder magnet?
1 b Are cylinder magnets noticeably bulkier once implanted?
2 If purchased from a online magnet supplier, is there any special things to make note of to the supplier, specifically in the coating process, to reduce demagnetisation?
Also please tell me if you have any ideas of experimental coatings, or implanting methods and such. I have some spare time and would love to attempt some new projects in the future.
Thanks for reading,
Regards, HalfHuman.
Comments
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I’m not entirely certain on this, but I think the amount of sensitivity depends on how many nerve ending “wrap around” your magnet. Smaller magnets tend to have more sensitivity because there’s more room for them to wrap around or near it. For a lifting magnet, the bigger and more cylindrical shape causes nerves to fall short and not as securely “grip” the magnet. (This is speculation and has no scientific backing so take this explaination with a huge grain of salt, Someone more knowledgeable like @Cassox probably has a better understanding than I do.)
As for demagnetizion, the only thing to worry about is the grade of the magnet. People losing sensitivity over time has to do with factors in the nerves rather than demagnetion, which takes centuries to occur.
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@nothot Ok thank you so much for clearing that up. :)
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I’m thinking about stacking 2 or 3 TiN coated 3mm x 1mm magnets for my next implant for lifting. I think it would be a cool experiment to test my hypothesis as well.
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Demagnetization generally denotes a failure in the coating and the slow degredation of a magnet.
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The reason that smaller magnets are better for sensing is that larger magnets have too much mass to pick up more slight vibrations. Think of a large block magnet. Will you be able to feel it vibrating from an electrical cord next to it? Most likely not. The reason is that with more mass, comes a higher energy cost to make it move. The many of the electromagnetic fields you will want to feel just dont leach off enough energy to make a noticeable vibration in lager magnets.
That being said, you don't want them so small that you can't feel them very well. I personally have had a magnet that was too small to sense well with it. On the other hand, I have a larger "lifting magnet" implanted in the webbing between my thumb and forefinger. Despite its larger size and being in a spot thought to be less sensitive than a fingertip, it is actually almost as good at sensing as my best sensing magnet, and more sensitive than my other sensing magnet.
@nothot I would advise you reconsider trying an implanted stack. The magnets will most likely slide against each other and wear out the coating leading to a failure. Even if you were very careful with them just slight movements over time will almost certainly lead to failure. You have to remember that a TiN coating will be mere microns thick and while this might not be a problem when sitting in flesh, having constant contact with a hard surface won't be good for it.
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Thanks @Beano @Nothot and @Cassox you've helped clear a lot up, thank you! One more question Im currently having. The magnet suppliers I've contacted said they don't do parylene coatings as its to hard to create a strong bond. Would a coating of (Ni-Cu-Ni) followed by a coating of TiN and Gold be sufficient?
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Assuming an adequate TiN, you'd be fine. However, I've had 10 different batches made and each have serious problems. I'll be taking the smm magnets tomorrow, but I don't have much hope for them.
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@Cassox Oh well thats really annoying, can the chances of this be decreased by having multiple layers of TiN, or offering to pay extra if its coated well? Or anything?
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@HalfHuman SMM magnets say they do a double coat of TiN to eliminate holes created by hang points during the first coating process. I’m sure you could ask them to add more coatings if you get in contact with a rep.
@Beano I didn’t think about them grinding together like that. However, I did think about epoxy coating them together (similar to @Cassox’s resin experiments). You think that will cause any issues?
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@nothot As in stacking them first and then coating them? Thats an interesting idea. If the resin is rigid enough it might keep them from sliding. Although i have seen that a lot of them tend to soften up a little after enough time in vivo. But with an epoxy coating your primary defense is the epoxy. However, I would still suggest contacting SMM and seeing if they would custom make a larger one for you. Maybe you could even get them to add more coatings.
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@Beano My idea was to apply resin on one of the magnets before putting them together, squishing the resin between the two and forming a seal. The primary defense will still be TiN except for the area between the two magnets.
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Very interesting Idea @nothot Ill be very interested in your results.
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Wouldn't it make more sense and be easier to use a 3mm x 2mm? Or maybe I'm missing something? I saw a girl stack 3 in her finger on youtube. She said it worked.
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@SimplyTom That’s the video where I got the idea from. Since I have 29 magnets in my disposal, why not just stack 2 of them to make a lifting magnet?(as long as it’s safe, obviously)
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@nothot, what company did you you purchase your magnets from, if you don't mind me asking? The ones I've contacted have either been way over priced or they don't supply to where I'm located.
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If you have extra magnets you should send some my way. ;) but if your looking for a lifting magnet I wouldn't stack them. Just purchase bigger ones. Less problems. I'm looking into some 24k gold ones.
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@SimplyTom From what I've seen gold coated magnets have a far lower success rate than most biocompatible coating, like silicon, or better TiN or even better parylene. but hardly any companies do parylene...
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We are severely limited to our options right now. I was going to get a gold plating kit and do some more plating and test them in some manner. Haven't gotten that far. ;) I don't see why adding some more gold wouldn't keep the moisture at bay.
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@SimplyTom Yeah its so hard to find someone do do coatings for biomagnets. The only issue with gold it how soft the metal is, and how quickly it wears. And when you coat it your only a layer thats a few microns thick, even with multiple coatings id worry a but about how long you could implant it before having to remove it. But experimentation is what will progress this community so I hope it goes well. :)
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It's pretty easy to get a gold electroplating kit. And cheap. About 50 bucks. If anyone else has tried at this I'd like to hear their procedure. And how long did it last? I would expect 2 years out of most of them it sounds like.
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Have you seen when Cody'sLab on youtube when he tried it? If not id recommend watching it. :)
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I did. He used a gold cyanide solution but I believe he only did 20 minutes per side. Would it result in thicker coats to do it longer?
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@SimplyTom I think more coats rather than longer might work better, but I'm no expert on the subject. Keep up the research I'm curios with what you come up with. :)
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@HalfHuman I got mine from SuperMagnetMan: https://supermagnetman.com/collections/neo-discs/products/d1005b-10-tin?variant=12239757279348
(The only shape they have is 3mm x 1mm)
You can see my implant story here: https://forum.biohack.me/discussion/2341/supermagnetman-magnet-n55-tin-implant#latest -
@nothot Thanks so much! Ill be sure to contact them, and read your post.
