Um. Does Transhumanism have a fascism problem?
Prompted by this article in NYMag:
I'm also reading Zoltan's The Transhumanist Wager at the moment, which so far is reheated Atlas Shrugged material with added endorsements of dictatorship and genocide.
Then there's Fuller and Lipinska's The Proactionary Principle, which endorses the idea we should scrap the Nuremberg Code. o_O
So... my question is... why does transhumanist libertarianism seem to blunder into this very nasty political space? And what can we do about it?
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I don't know. I'm not really an optimist so maybe I shouldn't be the one addressing this but still.. every group seems to do this. The gun toting redneck creationists talk about how stupid liberals are. The type of stupidity we're telling about is world view stuff.. not actual processing ability. Basically, if you don't prioritize that which I prioritize, you're stupid..
So I guess it's an attempt to answer, what do we do with the people who have.. incompatible.. world views? What about the folks who'd rather kill you then allow you to have an abortion? Who want more military spending and no NASA? People who believe global warming is a hoax and want less restrictions ala the EPA?
I think the answer is flaire. I don't think reasoning with people works all that well, but there was some shitty show I saw once where the protagonist was a young transexual male to female who was really hot and relatable. This show probably had a greater impact regarding acceptance then 1000 people telling people how they are stupid. Maybe we just need a more positive narrative. Churches do really well.. and they at least pretend to accept everyone. I think what we can do is be very cautious to avoid the "everyone is stupid" cliche, and instead see such situations as an opportunity to educate. We should try to keep transhumanism open and accepting... And we should look hot and cool as fuck while we do it. Flaire.
Full control over the individual self, with full access to 'bettering' oneself beyond the word and wills of nature? That there is a 'better' that can be achieved? These aren't inherently bad things. However, without basic acknowledgement of power structures and dynamics, they leave a lot of room for propping up some pretty gross ideologies. It's pretty much ripe for it, especially when 'better' becomes 'better in the eyes of the wealthy and unopposed' and not 'better for each individual to their own needs'.
Far as what can be done? For starters I guess Dunk Hard on the fuckers using it to justify their horrible opinions. Perhaps there are ways to present transhumanism in a way that explicitly defines itself as anti-supremacist, too? There are Anarcho-Transhumanist groups that put a greater focus on the socioeconomic implications on transhumanism; there might be some voices in there well worth boosting to counter a lot of the Big but Concerning voices put on stage currently.
Grinders aren't any different. That we discuss this and have our own individual stance makes things even more dynamic. >3<
Some people might validate the techno-libertarian ideal of inferiority or obsoleteness... Just like how some people may use a confederate flag as a symbol of hate. It's not the flags fault; it's the meaning behind the flag that it's been given by it's flyers. #_#
My quick two cents. ^^'
However, even with my large physique aside there are other physical attributes I have that let the world know I'm not a "regular" person, so I guess people already figure they're getting into some crazy when they talk to me. :) And oddly, I seem to pretty much get along with anybody I come into contact with despite how grumpy I am toward people from a distance. Rednecks and liberals alike. I think we all just want bliss in life, that's a trait we all share. Where we go wrong and start fighting amongst each other is when we disagree on how to get there. Fascism is just one of many outcomes from that disagreement.
I kind of think that we do have a bit of a problem when our goal is to "improve" or "enhance" humanity. Because that leads to questions like "what is 'better'?", "Does that mean that there are those that are objectively worse?" etc.Before we can go further, I think we need a good answer (I kind of do actually. I'm just not sure if everything shares that view) to that before we keep on going and then realize that we are heads deep in the abhorant path. We need to make a turn before we are too entrenched into fascism. Especially considering the current political environment.
It comes in a lot of varieties, and it varies in terms of its nature. But ultimately we all have a unique-ish makeup that will respond slightly differently when subject to the exact same things.
For my own perspective... let's analog medicine. We all have different maladies, conditions, situations... these may call for different drugs, analgesics, anesthetics, antidepressants, etc. But the different drugs that are available do not necessarily make one group of people inferior to another. Or rather, it's not the drug itselfs fault.
Steroids have legitimate medical applications as well as 'recreational' applications.
Grinding may be used to equalize. Look at prosthetics, for example. ^^ but for sake of arguments, it's more like vitamins. To better our human conditions in preferred methods.
The application to make someone's life better or easier does not constitute automatic evil. But it can be done in a way that is evil.
Biohacking is a tool. It's in the hand of it's wielder to determine it's possession. Just like are pharmaceuticals can be used. Or religion. This is my view.
One can become better or greater. But that does not mean they need to seek a path of superiority over their peers. That's their own vendetta, not the personal ideals of transhumanisim itself, for it's not a conscious or sentient living being.
If someone who has beliefs of being superiors is also a transhumamist, and they go out of their way to use grinding to become 'superior'... that sounds like 'I used this tool to do this' to me. *~*
Argue guns are evil, but they are not always used to kill innocent people. They can target shoot. They can hunt food. They can be used as deterrence against attack. ^^'
Give someone a gun who wants for protection. They are a bit more 'powerful' in the nature of the world. That by itself, from a survival or superior standpoint, is pretty huge. ^^'
I'd love to see an augmented human have the capacity to kill 30 people in less than 3 minutes without exerting more energy than running and jumping. Because that's pretty 'superior' to an unarmed human. <~<
Also, I think myself, if transhumanisim has a problem with fascism, it's that fascists are fascists and they incorporate transhumanisim into it. ;_;
My two cents.
The transhumanist movement could do better to pay attention to disability studies. The work of Ed Roberts and such. I think there are people attracted to transhumanism who carry supremacist ideology along with them. If you want to end death because dying sucks for everyone, you're a transhumanist. If you want to make YOURSELF immortal because you think you're better than others, you're a transhumanist and a supremacist! The two aren't hand-in-hand, but the overlap makes sense. A strong focus on disabilities studies, inclusion, social inequality, and selfless endeavors like volunteering and charity could perhaps stifle the growth of supremacist thinking inside transhumanism and deter those with existing supremacist baggage.
Well Turtle, I'd say a bit of a supremacist attitude is a core foundation of transhumanism.
The whole point of adding and enhancing abilities is to become more than human.
Disabilities research doesn't exactly match up, because their goal is usually to restore the disabled to baseline humanity's capabilities, which is philosophically at odds with transhumanism. In practice, yes, a lot of the research and developments overlap, but the goals are wildly different. The focus of transhumanism, imo, should always be "how can we become more than we are". Self guided, intentional, evolution. And not everyone is going to want to take part in that. That's fine, no one should be forced to, but they can't be allowed to hold others back, either.
I'm gonna have to say "meh" at this @countseven . How can we become more than we are means a lot of things, if you aren't coming from a supremacist attitude. Helping those who don't have is at the core of becoming more than one is, or do you specifically mean how do "I" come better? If a friend has no leg, and you teach them to build a leg, is this not helping them become more?
Is not human the full scope of us? Our flaws, or smarts, our stupids? Or is human just a metric you drew in the sand that you may or may not fit into?
Self guided, intentional, change. Not evolution because y'all are still adverse to bio.
And that's the rea kicker. Putting a magnet into your finger isn't evolution. It doesn't change future generations. It just changes you. It's a selfish act unless you pass it on.
I know I'm not always great at expressing what I mean. By "more" I mean it in a physical sense, as compared to biologically average human. And I wasn't meaning to say that helping the disabled is wrong, it falls within the scope of transhumanism, but isn't the focus of it. To use your example, a disabilities researcher is will be working to create a leg that's as good as a natural human one, where I feel a transhumanist would be working to make one better than human in all ways. Maybe something silly as a built in mp3 player, maybe an integrated propeller so that you can move faster than normal under water, the point is it would add capabilities a natural human doesn't have.
All of the societal meaning is completely irrelevant to what I was saying. Though I would say helping others doesn't make you more than human, as no intentional modification of bodily structure (biological or otherwise) is required for an average human to do it.
I have to be optimistic and think that as we move ahead and access becomes more democratic, we will choose to move into a more sharing space than not. As with any other tool though, access will be easier for the rich and powerful; if we let them choose how those tools are used, we risk that fascism growing.
But "fuck you, I got mine" is easy. Are we entitled to other people's work? Do we force them to share their sources and techniques? Protect their income vs. Our ability to enhance ourselves?
Do we become the anti-facist fascists? I'm spiralling out man!
As a disabled person I have to push back against the idea that prosthetics are about making someone meet an average human baseline. The goal is to give a person the ability to live life as they want to as much as reasonably possible.
Think: what does the ideal prosthetic leg look like? Is it more important that you can pass as human, or walk like one? Does it need to look like leg? Should an athlete get a leg that allows them to run as fast as Bolt? Not many people can. Should it be removable? Human legs aren't.
A leg is a tool that allows you to climb stairs. But climbing stairs is only a requisite for a prosthetic leg because the world is designed by able bodied people and they've put stairs everywhere. We could easily get rid of stairs, then a false leg could be a wheel. Do you see what I'm getting at?
Prosthetics end up mimicking human bodies only because the built environment and the social environment are constructed by able-bodied humans.
My hearing aids can stream music into my ears and let me hear Wi-Fi fields. Those aren't things a human body can do, but they've become part of what I can do. I'm not more or less human but differently human.
Prostheses overlaps with transhumanism in that it's about allowing someone to live their life as they like. It doesn't automatically follow that all disabled people want to live life like an able bodied person.
The problem with transhumanists is they always talk about being "more" human without ever considering who gets to define that human baseline, what counts as "more", and who gets to decide what "more human" is.
Zing!
I also think that there is a limit to being able to do things “better”. Just look around and have a look at the machines we got. A tank is never going to outrace a Farrari on a racetrack due to its heavy armor, and its heavy armor is the reason why a tank will (be more likely) to survive bullets and shells while they would just go straight through a Farrari and destroy its vital parts like engines.
Point is that our bodies had to obey laws of physics the same way as machines do, and be restricted by parameters required to do different tasks well (eg you can’t be heavily armored and at the same time be light enough to be the best flier). That’s why I think “enhancement” should be about what the person wants rather than just a uniform “do x better” or “extra abilities” that people may or may not want.
I’m going to say that this is a ridiculously broad definition of “selfish”. Other people may not even want magnets in their fingers and being able to pick up magnetic fields. They might just want you to use that power to, say, find the wires inside the walls during renovation for example.
crazy topic.. transhumanist agenda seems unreal as you correctly pointed out. What we really need to explore is communities such as Ananda in the US where people work together to create a real Utopia for anyone interested to radiate positivity and love. When a community and a nation is built on mutual love and respect for both nature and man, we can truly transform the world. If these guys are not aligning to such objectives and instead start focusing on technologies that their company's build, you should be smart enough to realize that!
In addition to all these points, Trans humanism and H+ have been brought into the mainstream by Dan Brown recently in Origin. It has some Fascist and scary references, yet I was able to pick out the truth. It just requires attention.
Selfish in the most biological sense. In the most literal sense. About the self. It's not ridiculously broad. It's what the word means. I know it's unpleasant to hear, but that's how words work. You getting better at you job (for instance, feeling electrical wires) isn't really a non selfish act. It's about you getting better about your job. And do you pass this on to your offspring? Can you share your abilities? Nerp.
This absolutely makes you more than human, because you have capabilities that are beyond what is biologically possible built in. Sure, anyone else can do it with the proper piece of technology, but that doesn't change the fact that you now have in-built capabilities that an unmodified human does not.
OK. If that's how you would put it...
Babies learning how to walk isn't really a non-selfish act. It's about the baby learning how to walk. Can the baby pass on how to walk to other babies? Can babies share the ability to walk? Nerp.
Writing a book by yourself isn't really a non-selfish act. It's about you enjoying what you've written. And do you pass on this enjoyment to your offspring? Can you share the enjoyment? Nerp.
Eating a good meal by yourself isn't really a non-selfish act. It's about you enjoying what you're eating. And do you pass on this enjoyment to your offspring? Can you share the enjoyment? Nerp.
Breathing isn't really a non-selfish act. It's about you keeping yourself comfortable and alive with oxygen. And do you breath for your offspring to keep them alive and comfortable? Can you share this "being alive" and comfort? Nerp.
Being alive isn't really a non-selfish act. It's about you being alive. And can you be alive for your offspring? Can you share your life with a dead person? Nerp.
Exercising isn’t really a non-selfish act. It’s about you being healthy. Can you pass on your fitness to your offspring? Can you share your fitness to others? Nerp.
You being motivated to do anything isn't really a non-selfish act. It's about you activating the dopaminergic pathway that also rewards you (since that's also the reward pathway). Can you pass on the activation to your offspring? Can you share the activation with other people? Nerp.
This is what I mean by "broad". If the above all sounds ridiculous that's because that's how ridiculous that argument is. By your definition anything that does not immediately benefit other people is automatically "selfish" just due to how our brains work: our motivation pathway and reward pathway are the SAME pathway: we literally cannot be motivated to do anything without rewarding ourselves.
If your argument is that transhumanism is as selfish as writing a book or exercising than I don't see how that's meaningful or helpful to the discussion.
Besides, "can I pass on the ability to my offspring", "can I share my abilities"? I can teach others how to put magnet implants into their fingers. I can use my ability for other people so that functionally they would be the same as having my ability to pick up wires in walls, ie they would know where the wires are. This is what this forum is for, isn't it? To share and discuss the new and exciting stuff that we discovered? To share what we have learnt?