Creating bioproof, flexible wiring for the body
Okay, so conductive tattoos seem to be out because of the body's natural conductivity and the only available solutions' high level of resistance before tattooing. Which leaves me with a question: how should we make bioproof wiring?
Basically a proper subdermal wire seems to need 3 things:
- some flexibility
- bioproofing
- a small size
Here's my proposal: get some thin tissue paper. Stitch a zigzag pattern on it out of conductive thread. Take that and coat it in some type of flexible bioproofing material (what are the options?). Give it a tug to break the paper inside, and then you have a stretchy biocompatible wire ready to be run under the skin.
Anyone have any better ideas? One that would make a more compact wire for the body suitable for running all over?
Tagged:
Comments
http://www.science-products.com/Products/CatalogG/Wires/wires.html
all commonly used material, many available with teflon coating for insulation.
but even then , you may be better off winding the wire around a thin rod , implant it, and pull the rod out. so you are left with a spiral in place.
The more I think of this, the more I gotta say, this wount work. The wire would have to be of totally different elasticity, after you implant the wire, one move and you have several places along the wire that will tare the tissue. When you you implant something, the tissue around it eventually grows to it. One move, a lot of trauma. Thoughts?
So, wire doesn't stretch. That's fine, we can work with that. How?
What else in the human body doesn't stretch? Bones!
So, for long runs, like down the length of the thigh, just route it next to the bone.
Now, the tricky part. Joints.
Joints stretch, flex, rotate... all wonderful things, all things that wire cannot do.
How do we get around this?
What I'm thinking is some kind of miniture spool thing. Like one of those keycard zipline thingies that holds a keycard on your waist, and lets you whip it out to open doors.
OK, cool, we've got the extension covered. How to prevent that from getting all gunked up with bodily fluids and other fun stuff? aka - how do we bioproof this?
So, we need something that can stretch, is bioproof, and can have wire routed through it.
I'm thinking something like heat-shrink tubing (but not, duh. something more bioproof)
Alternatively, and this would make it a big install, but then what full-scale wiring wouldn't be, make it like an artery. Bear with me. Think a hose of bioproof material, within which your wire, spool, and (possibly) hardware sit in. Route the hose whereever it needs to go, and hey presto.
But seriously folks, if you're thinking of doing wires around joints, you're looking at a MAJOR install. Unless you're thinking only shallow subdermal.
-Bish
bones, joint and stuff... better stay out of those as there are nerves running close to those already. and you don't wanna cut those by accident.
@SixEcho that elastic core does sound pretty decent. like a tiny silicone string or so. but i'd worry about it too. if it would end up beeing stretched, it would apply pulling-force on both ends, usualy pressing against, or pulling at tissue.
so if anything, it would have to be somethin elastic that produces almost zero resistance, maybe a very soft foam.
The second idea sounds far more doable.
More generally, I will point out _anything_ stretchy is going to change resistance as it stretches.
Jesus, I'm just shitting all over everyone tonight, aren't I? :-)
Sorry, all.
But guys, it's wiring up the human body! There's no quick and easy way with current tech to circumvent that for large installs (I'm talking cross-joint here, so like an arm, across the knee joint, or even just a finger base to tip).
The reason I bought bones into it was because they act like wire - they don't stretch. That's the only reason. If someone is looking to wire an area that isn't going to involve stretching across a joint (say, the thigh, or forearm) then you look for an area that isn't going to be moved much by the flexing of muscles. Hence, nest it next to bones.
@SixEcho - Major surgery, and to be honest I kind of hope nobody here gets the idea that it'd be neat to do this at home. This is more just an idea to get around a known problem - that of stretching wire.
@ThomasEgi, Yeah, I know bioproof wire exists, and that would definately be used, but the spool mechanism would also need to be isolated from bodily fluids so as to pay out/reel in the wire smoothly. That's why it'd be a gardenhose style of thing, with everything inside a bioproofed tube. Extra bioproofing on the wires would be wise though, in case of a breach.
@Unqualified - Yup, when I said MAJOR install, I meant it. Re: stretchy stuff, that's why it's on a spool. The wire doesn't stretch, it just gets payed out of the spool as needed, and reeled back in when not needed. Simple! :)
Seriously though, my money's on conductive tattoos, and I feel that's where we should focus our energy. Reasons? Cheap, easy, (comparatively) painless, no recovery time, modular (just ink up a new connection!), No network of scars (Sure, doesn't bother us, but it might get to society having people walking around with huge scar networks running all over the joint)
... I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point.
a spool is not that much of a great idea as it consists of mechanically moving parts, and also puts mechanical stress on the coating of the wires. having a few cm surplus wire just hanging around in the body (in form of a coiled up wire) makes a lot more sense.
Roboden - Elastic Electric/Data/USB Cables - Asahi Kasei Fibers
ThomasEgi: No offence, but,,, No testing has been done yet and I see no reason to throw the idea into the garbage can. Why say "It doesn't work"? I say let's make it work!
Srsly no offence, I respect and like your ideas and know-how. nuff said
@Ghost02236 : it is very hard based on physic laws, body chemistry, and for the actual process. it is not that it won't work at all, but compared to other options we have , the idea is not even close to be practically used. i am not throwing it into the garbage can, just saying that it is not an option for now, and that it'll be difficult to make it work.
i am sorta focused on solutions that actually work today so we can use them to build implants and advance.
This is why I was advocating putting our developmental energies into getting a viable conductive tattoo working, because that will be the best solution.
TE, do you disagree that, if we could get them working to a satisfactory standard, tattoos would be better than hard wiring requiring implantation?
connecting that wire to the actual implants is what worries me a lot more. i am not aware of any tiny bioinert connector systems. and soldering inside the body is out of question.
firm or not, we'd need an easy of connection in-vivo.
my idea for a DIY connector would be based on conductive silicone (regular medical-grade silicone mixed with a bio-inert conductor (like gold or metal powder).
first would be a model of the male-connector made from a small teflon stick. (maybe 2 mm in diameter, and 8mm long or so). one would add rings of conductive silicone around that stick, one for each contact. once the rings are mostly dried/hardened, one would wrap around a wire around each contact and add a bit more conductive silicone. once that's done. add non-conductive silicone so all the rings sit firm in place. after everything hardened, pull out the teflon rod and the female connector is pretty much done (would look similar to a regular 3.5mm audio jack, just a bit smaller and silicone).
for the male connector i am not sure yet. probably very much like a audio-connector too, maybe made from the wires just wound around a teflon rod.
the important part would be that the female connector has a small hole on the other end, and the male connector has an extra thread that you can use to pull the male connector into the female one, and secure it with a knot or so.
very rough illustration (excuse my 5-minute-gimp-quality)
the thin thread from the male connector could also be used when pulling the wire through the body, as it is not electrially critical so no need to hesitate when grebbing it.
the whole idea probably requires a lot of detail work end experimentation to turn it into a reliable connection. but it could be made at home with some practice and materials should be easy to source. one could also use an extra ring to detect if the connector is no longer in the correct position, and shutting down all data/power so one doesn't get any undesired electrical shocks.
and a single connection is of no use, you need at least 2, to get something done having 4 lines is pretty much a requirement.
with that ring-based plug of mine we could have both, firm and non-firm connections, besides it would be 100% bioinert so even if the plug slides out there is no harm to the body. besides it allows you to insert all wires at once.
i'd guess the extra effort of building such a connector is well worth the benefits you gain from it.
Wires, connections, nodes? Chuck it all in a bioproof hose. Problem solved. I think.
nor can you put the entire setup into a bioproof shell and implant the whole thing (not without cutting open big parts of your skin (which is exactly what we want to avoid))
so the idea is to route wires with the the smallest amount of invasion, and then connect the actual nodes in vivo. (again with least amount of tissue-damage)
it is better to have all components bioproof to begin with, instead of relying on just a small shell.
for a small wire-less implant, wrapping everything in medical grade silicone sure would do the trick. but this discussion is about wiring.