time in my wrist

Hey there!
I'm new to this platform so let me introduce myself a little: I've always been interested in biohacking I just didn't know that it was called that name ;)
A couple of years ago I've been watching the movie 'In Time' and liked the idea of having these green numbers in my wrist. The only difference is that I don't want to have a countdown but a simple watch under my skin so it shines through.

I think it's not that hard to construct due to the fact that simple watches are quite cheap and tiny but still there are a few questions to clarify:
-Any idea how I can recharge it? I thought about an USB-plug already (maybe interesting as well if I want to change the timecode someday) or there are some watches that recharge itself by movement
-it should be flat, really flat so it doesn't hinder any function of my bones
-it should not contain too much metal so I don't get in trouble for security checks e. g. at the airport
-i would like to have an on/off-switch. How should I do it? Maybe by stroking over my arm?

Here is a picture: http://cdn5.brusimm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/In-Time-You-Arm-Clock-showing-1-year-12-hours-and-50-minutes.jpg?56e547

So anyone interested in helping me? :)


  • Ok so a few things here. First I would read through some of the other implantable projects so you can see what sorts of things are neccasary. In the coming week or 2 the wiki should be heavily updated or I'd have pointed you to that first. So lets try and do this in order:
    1. The only way you could use a usb to charge it is through a transdermal port, something we are working on but is not currently feasible. The issue being that anything sticking out for the skin like that currently leaves microscopic holes that lead right into your body for any bacteria to wander in. We're working on this but that project is a long ways off completion so i'd avoid it. Your best best is probably inductive charging.
    2. your bones aren't the problem here and theres more to consider than it just being really flat. The flatter it is the easier it is to break, but the less annoying it would be to have there. Also depending on the size it could cut off oxygen supply to a large portion of your dermis and such which I hope I don't need to explain why that is bad.
    3. You're going to have a giant glowing clock in your arm, metal is the least of your worries and unless they've started making transistors and ICs out of glass without me knowing, something like this will need a good bit of metal, especially the charging circuit.
    4. a button works better
    5. to produce enough light to be seen through your skin reuqires a lot of power. This will drain whatever battery you have very quickly and so you'd be constantly charging the thing unless you had a big bulky battery.

  • My group is currently working on this project with a manufacturer, our main roadblock at the moment is funding the prototype and production. We are considering running a kickstarter for it.

    Until GBFC's are a bit more powerful/safe induction charging is the best way to go.

    Just in response to Drjaaz, the circadia was pretty huge, did it have issues with cutting off blood flow?
  • that clock is rather huge. points such as charging, power consumtion etc still remain. but flatness and flexibility could be possible by using coated fibre optics. so you have one more or less smallish implant with high power led's and strands of fibers which lead the light from that thing to the single segments of the 7-segment displays
  • edited February 2015
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  • @ ThomasEgi you beat me by 20 mins !
  • @Griskard no real blood flow problems. I mean at first it was cooler than the rest of my body, but it healed fine. 

    That said I would like to FIRMLY recommend you do not get anything close to that big. It was painful, scary, took forever to heal, and looked generally horrifying. 

    OMG i thought it was going to be filled with fluid forever! took like 60 days before it stopped filling with fluid and I had to get it drained a few times. The stuff we are working with now is like the size of a stack of quarters and I still want to reduce it :)
  • Out of curiosity, how was it drained?  Syringe?  And was it done by you guys or at a doctor's office/clinic?
  • Syringe. I went to a piercing shop. its was a strange twist of fate, in Germany one of the guys assisting Steve just so happened to be from pittsburgh, so he followed up with aftercare.
  • Have you considered a non-invasive approach to this? How about a projection?
  • projection seems so simple though. it's not in any way subdermal and i feel like i could do something similar by salvaging an old projection alarm clock and tinkering with some electronics... it's thoroughly unimpressive in my opinion... but maybe that's just me.
  • I'm not against cool experiments, but it seems a bit overzealous to cut open your arm to implant a bulky, unchargeable, unremovable light watch that will run out of novelty in a few days of chafing. Not worth it to me.
  • i guess that's why we're trying to find a way to make it worth doing right? if you could implant a paper thin framework and a slightly thicker disk of electronics that are rechargeable by induction, wouldn't that be worth it? 
  • Good point. Ok, paint me a word picture.

    Let's brainstorm some paperthin frameworks.

    Also, let's touch on the trifecta of grinder issues. power, charging, and coatings.
  • The hardest part of that would be the batteries, everything else yoU could make super thin. Traces could be on a flex pcb (paper thin) the led's could probably shine through the skin if implanted at the right depth. And the flex pcb don't have to be very wide at all. I think it's completely possible!
  • edited February 2015
    i am completely ignorant of electronics and batteries but i have given google a quick search  and have found a few interesting things. this article seems to be talking about the scope of battery we are looking for : 

    here's the original non-dumbed down version that perhaps some of you sciency types will be able to get more from: 

     the only thing i'm worried about is how to make these bio safe and wether or not radiation or any kind of negative effect on the body is an impassible factor with implanting these ?  (speculations?)

    so then i searched for "medical implant batteries" and found this : 

    that last link has actual batteries . i'm not sure how or if we could convince them to sell them to us, but that's not the point yet... 

    as for the electronics i am clueless but i would imagine including an rfid along with whatever electronic board we decide to put in would be useful, because it could essentially report the level of battery charge, you could include a temperature gauge and such. again. this is where i kinda wish i was electronically inclined... 

    and the "paper thin " layer of the display screen , as mentioned by @Avanthus - i feel like - is the least of our worries simply because the way to light it is straightforward and shouldn't take too much tinkering to finalize... ( also what about Polypropylene ?  how well it conducts the led's light would of course be the main factor here)

    i am not an authority on coatings so i will keep my mouth shut on that one .. perhaps somebody more knowledgeable would care to venture a proposition about that.

    as far as power  the medical batteries seem to be pretty powerful and there are quite a few options there...
    finally for the charging : induction seems to be the most logical answer. it could be done by having a charging station put into the gutted insides of a normal watch and wear it around the wrist for as long as needed to recharge batteries? 
     hopefully covered all the topics and provided speculations as to the answers to them...

    apologies for the lengthy and mostly full of nonsense post X)
  • those implant grade battery stats are very impressive. they probably cost 2 fortunes given the low production quantity and the high quality. if i had to sell them i'd put a 3 , probably even 4 digit price tag on them.
  • Wow! Quite a lot of responses!
    I'm trying to answer them all.

    At first: Of course it should be smaller that that one on the picture due to the fact that a watch has four digits only and second the topic is called '...in my wrist' not in my arm ;)
    All your ideas are pretty good but I thought much simpler maybe this one would already work:

    But I'd like to improve it's data by reducing its weight, its thickness, its brightness and contrast and the duration of its battery.

    If you'd take a simple LED-display it would still shine through the skin and it doesn't charge much power.
    I've got a quite bright and small flashlight which lasts for days continnously running.

    But I didn't consider inductive charging! That's a great idea! But I did consider projection and I'm a big fan of it. I didn't know Ritot but it reminded me of the Cicret Bracelet. A really cool technology but though it's another topic I think.

    Drjaaz, your first point is remarkable I think. So USB recharge is dismissed. The third point I didn't get!? And how do you want to have a button under your skin like you mentioned in your fourth point?

    Griskard, that sounds really cool! Do you have a link to your project?

    And I liked Dragon5's articles. Let's give it a try and ask these guys for the tinybattery! But why do you want to include a tempreture gauge?? To know how hot your arm is?
  • Couldn't we use a 3D printer with the capability to print in microns to print very small batteries? We would have to modify the material used so it can properly print out the anode and the cathode then couldn't we put it in a container with a liquid or a gel that would act as the electrod?
    I don't know anything about batteries it just occurred to me while watching a video on micro scale 3D printing.
  • edited February 2015
    @Holg the only reason i wanted to include a temparature gauge is because i started thinking of the watch as a possible media center. what if it could have multiple functions? it's more of a futuristic idea i guess, nothing worth pursuing yet (because it just adds more complexity to the project/ bulk to the electronic component)  it was just an idea that i thought would be pretty cool. @Kingofrandom that would be a really cool idea if we had somebody who knew how to do it, and as i'm not too familiar with 3d printing , would a entry level machine have the capability to work with the materials needed ?  if we have somebody with time and the materials we could potentially plug out one of those! that would be really helpful..
    @ThomasEgi  if it was a three digit price tag perhaps it would be a close to worth it investment for the right people? i mean if the whole thing was engineered properly it could be a pretty nifty implant... i wonder if there's any way we can contact them without having to be a medical institution... perhaps there's a medical institution that buys them that we can ... get them from...? the specifics are the hardest part..
  • I don't think anyone here is familiar with 3D printing. If we find a lot of practical uses for it and how to print and what not then we should try to invest in one. It could be used for printing small bioproof containers for electronics and other components you would want be inside a small container that would be made to fit your need.
  • There was a group buy awhile back of a Peachy Printer.  Link
  • That accursed printer. We hate it. Its just the biggest pain in the ass. Please see the above mentioned thread where we apologize and offer to buy another printer.
  • I must point out that the display itself would probably not be as thin, but the traces would be, and likely with a proper solder station you could do some right small smd work which would make the whole thing more appealing to me peraonally. If I'm paying over $150-$200 for a finished product I don't expect it to be ANY thicker than it has to be, otherwise it's going to get in the way.
  • Frankly Im hoping this guy solves some problems before we do so we can straight up steal his ideas, heh.
  • edited March 2015
    just going to put this here, interesting ideas! Just another way to possibly recharge a battery or capacitor.

  • I thought that was going to be a link to glucose generators
  • edited March 2015
    @glims aren't you working on epoxy or resin coatings? How is that coming along, because I think that could solve all of the problems with housing this implant. Just stick a hall monitor (a magnetic switch I belive) and you have a sturdy, completely sealed implant. The only worry I would have is possible overheating on the batteries, but I haven't seen anything on the specs for them.
  • With what I was doing, those two terms are basically used interchangeably. The coating procedures are coming along nicely. We have at least one solid technique but it's for softer things. Some of us are working on a more robust coating process and I'll update a bit more on that when we get some results.

    Could you specify your concept a little better please? The only definition I have for a hall monitor is someone who stands around and makes sure you have permission to go to the bathroom...
  • @glims, I meant a reed switch, I don't know where my head was! It's limiting in the sense that to turn the watch on you would have to either have a magnet implant or touch one to the spot where the switch is. But I think it's a pretty good idea, and along with a hard, clear, biosafe coating you have eliminated all seams and moving parts. And like I said before the only thing I could see being a problem would be the batteries.
  • edited March 2015
    A thought: You don't need a complex readout here. Aesthetically the thing you're going for is a digital watch shining through the skin, but you don't actually need Arabic numerals to tell the time. You could make a functional clock with a binary display using just LEDs that are either on or off. A binary clock would even give you a 24 hour time format. This could maybe save you some trouble. This could be easily implemented in any sub-dermal with even a modicum of computing power, now that I think of it. Why not have a clock in the Circadia?

    Something that could give you more trouble is changing and setting it: You'll need an input/output so that when you change time zones or run out of batery you're not stuck with the wrong time in your arm. This could be done pretty simply with Bluetooth (low power consumption, small, just the first wireless data transfer that came to mind. I'm relatively new to this, so cut me some slack if I'm not up to speed on things like transdermal data transfer) or a physical button beneath whatever your bio-neutral coating is.

    Example of a binary clock:

    Example of another clock, different, but still using a set of lights that are either ON or OFF. This one is not in 24 hour format: 
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