About test subjects...

Does using mices or rats as test subjects is legal? Do i need some sort of permit? How about volunteers? Are there some sort of special procedures when I'm experimenting on other/self? 


  • I'm not a lawyer. however, there are regulations when it comes to animal test subjects. Not sure if you need a special permit for it but there are rules you should follow for the sake of your test subjects. Do NOT experiment on other humans, this can get you into really deep trouble. The "best/¿only?" choice (for most countries) is to test things on yourself, with someone standing by, doing nothing but watching in case things turn out bad so they can call you an ambulance.
    But then again, I'm not a lawyer or anything.
  • Scientist here!
    TL;DR you may only point your scalpel at yourself.

    There is a pile of regulations and (necessary) hoops that one must jump through to do testing on vertebrates. Not only must you only use certain animals (mice from petco are a no no), but you must submit your protocol to the Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee. This means you have to have an actual protocol, not just "let's stick this electrode in a mouse". You need to have a proper work and care area that will be inspected and accredited. This means you need a real work area, not your garage. There's also liscensing, etc etc. Violating these things will nail you with epic levels of fees and potential jail time (depending on how badly you fucked up)

    There are no special procedures for when you are experimenting on others because you DO NOT EXPERIMENT ON OTHERS. The procedures for experimenting on yourself are: run all your plans by someone with a background in medicine and someone with a background in the thing you are doing, so they can stop you from doing something that might obviously break yourself. Listen to these people. Have a spotter to make sure you don't bleed out. They do not participate. If your buddy is helping out and you bleed out and crash, he can get smacked with criminally negligent homicide. That's not cool.

    Beyond that, make sure you take good notes and always sterilize your tools with 70% ethanol before you use them.
  • Thanks for this advices - and yes i sterilize my tools - I started with body piercing modification at first (about year and half ago) I also had implanted my friend with magnet in finger and everything is great - no sign of rejection and the wounds had healed.. (also i made another friend a surface bar) I was just courious about the regulations and requirements. Thanks for helping feeding my curiosity :)
  • @Glims, you mentioned 70% ethanol.  Is there any reason to shy away from the 90%, 91% or 99% stuff?  Aside from the fire hazard.
  • If I remember correctly, the stuff with not maximal % simply works better. I think this has something to do with alcohol also having conserving properties that take effect from a certain percentage on.
  • "Hey, if I experiment on people, can I get in trouble?"

    " YES! Don't experiment on people, you can get into some deep shit!"

    "Oh ok, just curious 'cause I was just experimenting on some people the other day..."

  • We use 70% ethanol because it is a lab standard. It's the double fisted combo of the awesome solvency of water with the sterilizing properties of etOH
  • my grandma is available for procedures if you have something really good. 
  • edited March 2014
    well now i help  "someone i know ;)" to check the legal chemicals used in food preservation for it's cancerous capabilities on rats... Long term observation, and this someone has a friend with vet studies 
  • And delicious from what I've heard.
  • edited March 2014
    Delicious? SWIM dont give them sweets - he usually puts legal dyes and artifical sweeteners to thier daily food + one control group of 5 who is feed normal food... every day someone checks thier weight and condition 
  • If I am not mistaken the reason why there are regulations involving animals is because they do not have the ability to consent either verbally or written. And I agree with most of the regulations and guidelines. However, there are current studies where human testing is taking place. The new artificial heart for example. I am curious to know if anyone here has any knowledge or a link to legal documentation outlining the regulations regarding human experimentation. 

    Society may frown upon it, but is it completely illegal? Is it possible to have a subject sign a waiver allowing you to use them for the advancement of science and technology?
  • You need NIH oversite. They don't approve testing by people like us :)
  • Why not taking a homeless and make him sign anything? Yes, Im kidding... or no? 
  • >Society may frown upon it, but is it completely illegal? Is it possible to have a >subject sign a waiver allowing you to use them for the advancement of science >and technology?

    No, you can not do that. Yes, it is completely illegal. Sorry :(
  • I hope it was legal , we could discover a lot of things (Thats what I thnk, maybe im wrong) also I´ve read somwhere on the Deep Web about people doing experiments with homeless, so the idea obviously its not new,kind of strange way  of thinking right here haha

  • Jack_Sylvane the specific "service" is pure fiction^^.
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