Bodyhack call out

edited February 2015 in Community
For solidarity.

So, as y'all may have noticed, @Saal, @Cassox, @zombiegristle, @Lucas_Dimoveo, and I are all engaged in a project to hack our eye bits. Pretty nifty. But as we discussed / noticed, we need to have a stable and solid substrate to work upon. That substrate is our body meats. Gotta have a solid chassis before you start modding that hot rod, right?
This means that all these guys are working on making themselves science grade workable. Right now, we are all working on getting our bodyfat into the single digits. It's needed to get the solid data that we need to nail down the changes we are hoping to effect. @Lucas_Dimoveo sent me his measurement excel sheet. @Cassox went keto/paleo after being _vegan_. @Saal is kicking the smokes. For Science!

I'm asking... calling upon the community, to join us. You may not be a guinea pig now,  but you are grinders! Grind with us! Maybe you don't have a spare dollar to throw at this project, heck, maybe all your spare dollars are going to your projects. But, can you guys and gals throw a little props this way, let these grinders know that we are all pushing for the same goal? Show some support and start grinding that chassis!

Do you want to build a better machine?

I'll go first:

@glims - 221 lbs - 13.8% bodyfat    gonna hit single digits within project launch


  • why do you have to be a male model to do anything... isnt the point of grinding is that its supposed to be for anyone... wouldnt you then want multiple body types to test on?
  • If you're doing an experiment, the only way to get anything that resembles useful results is to eliminate every possible external variable. Which means you want all the subjects to be as similar as possible. More importantly, this particular experiment hinges on the elimination of stored Vitamin A in bodyfat, so we have to get that shit as low as possible before we begin or the whole thing will be thrown off out of the gate.
  • I'm with you. Never thought of losing weight as an attempt to become a better labrat haha. And yeah all of my dollars are going to my projects. Though if I get the sum of cash i'm planning on getting I hope to put at least $10 of it into your project(not a lot, but its not a big sum either haha)

    @john - 266 lbs - no clue can I just ask my doctor next standard check up?

  • I'll jump on this train too. 
    @TheGreyKnight - 140 lbs - Lean Body Mass

    See, the only way for me to go is up... I'm in the lower tenth percentile BMI for my age.
  • @TheGreyKnight BMI isn't as important as body fat ratio. You can be 6 feet tall and 150 lbs and be 30% bodyfat. If you put on 20 lbs of muscle mass you would be up to 170 but your body fat ratio would have gone down. having muscle is good for you but it weighs more than fat by volume. According to a BMI calculator, i'm obese, but there is now ay that 13% body fat is obese. You need all the data.

    @John yeah, it would be really easy for your doc to measure that. it only takes a minute to do properly.
  • Saal-161 lb-6 ft-extrememly lean, calipers & myo tape will arrive in the mail 10/2/13

    Smokes: Down to two a day, projected to quit Friday (I just run till my lungs feel like they're bleeding when I want a smoke xD)
  • Saal you are a brave brave man, quiting smokes is where science stops and murder begins...
  • 'gristle - 6'0", 160-ish, lean. Seems I'm fairly similar to you, Saal - minus the smokes. I gave up coffee and energy drinks cold-turkey, though...Used to pound two cans of monster on an easy day.
  • I'm still downing 2 pots of coffee every morning and caffeine pills throughout the day. God help glims if he tries to make me drop the caffeine...I work a 12 hour rotating shift xD
  • oh dude... oh i wish you hadn't... *stern face* it's gotta go.
    caffeine wreaks havoc on your adrenals. if you are dosing with that much, you have basically broken your endocrine system.

    if you start now, you'll be normal by the time we start. my condolences.
  • oh god saal  them feels i generally run forteen to twenty six hour days and drink roughly a two liter to a one and a half a day... on a positive note... i hear they have some really good prepaid defense lawyers for real cheap....
  • Nah, don't give me condolences. It's the families of my coworkers at the factory you need to feel sorry for O.o
  • If the goal is bodyfat reduction, and not general health, isn't dropping the smokes a decidedly bad idea?  Appetite reduction and stimulants are your friend right now, even if they do contribute to slowly killing you.

    Depending upon your calendar, going for ECA might be worthwhile, though more difficult to obtain now, it is the traditional method for this type of bodyhacking.  But it doesn't necessarily seem like you need to dump more on top of your caffeine consumption right now.
  • The problem with that is that we need the system clean. Health is necessary or we won't get good results. You can't get good data when you are messing with the adrenals and dosing on nicotine, etc. 
    The ECA is harsh on a body. Done right, you don't need to supplement to get to this level. Let me xpost below from the labnotebook/blog on the site. @Cassox actually wrote a really great email to me yesterday about this topic.

    If you apply the science, and stick to your methods, achieving this is not as difficult as on would think. Most research sets the baseline diet parameters for single digit body fat percentages at 2.2g/kg protein per bodyweight a day, a reduced caloric diet (based on weight and activity levels), under 50 g carbohydrates, and 40% of your total calories being fat. Different units are used, as some of the variables change with weight loss while others remain constant throughout the process. Reduced Carbohydrates shift the body towards using fat as it's primary energy source. Fat is necessary for many things including nutrient uptake and energy. The protein level is necessary to maintain muscle mass as fat is burned. This may all sound like a lot of trouble and numbers and whatnot, but basically it's a modified keto/paleo diet and some exercise. Lab rats deal with much more stringent dietary controls, but we're striving to keep to those standards ;) The subjects have been bouncing emails back and forth and the general consensus is that they feel great! Some are already close to the line and some are approaching it rapidly.
  • I wish I could join you all! Props for undertaking such an ambitious project!
  • I am all for this. As I've delved more into grinding, I've also been focusing a lot more on my body and getting it to a more optimum level before additions.

    I quit smoking a year ago and switched to electronic cigarettes as an alternative nicotine delivery. I have discovered great use in regulating that in a real quantifiable way, using it as a stimulant when needed as well as controlling my addiction.

    I'm also starting a soylent experiment next week, hopefully also to get my nutrients up/fat down and actually monitor what goes in and out. Better than my past pizza/beer/cola diet that I was on for too long. I'll definitely throw some updates this way.

    I agree that working on a well oiled machine (as it were) would be a hell of a lot easier than anything else and so am fully supportive of this.
  • I've been talking about this in private conversations but basically, you can put turbo in a junker honda, but it's still junk when you're done.  i mean, you could do some blood doping to increase your ability to utilize oxygen, but if you are naturally winded after sprinting a block, that mod is not going to help you very much.  gotta get your baseline up :)
  • So I forgot to add my bit about smoking... I don't smoke tobacco. Like once a month cigar or hookah. But I do smoke a decent bit of marijuana like thrice a week about? Sometimes more sometimes less. I'm not exactly in on experiment yet so It doesn't matter anyways. But would it if I was in on the experiment? Though I stop smoking for months at a time often with no issue so it wouldn't be a serious problem anyway.
  • At 2-4 days a week of smoking, marijuana and the associated chemicals would stay in your body (still found in a urine test) for 23-35 days. You would need to stop smoking roughly one month before we started administrating the A2.  Nicotine is only in the body for a few days after you stop smoking, but the biometrics are all outta whack for a good month.  same things with caffeine.
  • Yeah that's all completely doable.  Now how about my hourly methamphetamine use? That shouldn't be an issue right?

  • @glims just wrote up an awesome post on the bodyhacking protocol adopted by our group. Go check out our blog at for more details! I recommend skipping the cold thermogenisis if you're just trying to get into a healthy range.
  • @john and others, if this experiment proves fruitful a nice followup could be to determine if a smoker and/or someone with greater body fat can achieve the same results as your initial study group.
  • i swear, i really hope you are joking. if not...


    i mean, sure, we want to hack it for standard bodyfat. initial experiments are always in more ideal than not conditions. and there shouldn't be any real issue with smoking inhibiting vitamin uptake more than it already does.

    i'm just confused. and i mean no disrespect if you fall into the category of the individuals you reference, but i read this and all i saw was "wow, thats pretty cool, does it work on unhealthy people too?"

    my answer is, and i only speak for myself not the group or anyone else, why?

    //rant warning
    what the heck is wrong with you guys? how can a "nice followup" to a sweet biological hack be figuring out how to make it work for overweight people who are destroying their health on a molecular level with cigarettes? what in the world makes one think that this is a good idea? step one: set a baseline. that gets you up to zero. if you are overweight and smoking you are _below_zero_ as far as biohacking. this is not a judgement. this is a _biological_reality_. your body will have a higher tendency to reject anything you attempt to stuff into it, metal or metabolic when you are in that state.
    you people...
    //rage quits 
  • Sorry, continue to science in the way you deem appropriate. but to be clear I dont smoke and have probably average body composition. was just curious.
  • sigh, it's not "science in the way i deem appropriate". it is "the scientific method" and "how the body works". you don't add unnecessary variables because unnecessary variables don't give you real reproducible results. This is not "what i deem appropriate" this is the actual functional way of exploring the world scientifically. I am a huge proponent of diy and open source science. this means anyone can do science. it does not mean ignore the scientific method.

    likewise with biohacking. love it. all for it. but i tire of hearing people talking about modding their bodies to be more than human while ignoring the fact that they can't make it a day without a nicotine fix or struggle to do a situp. even discussing working in that condition, to me, seems to just engender a culture of apathy and entitlement. a concept that one can drive their body into the ground and then save it with a plug and play tech fix. it becomes escapism, the desire to be more than human because being human is hard. can't breathe lungs are shot, can't run body is shot, can't get up in the morning without the coffee fix metabolism is shot. it's depressing.

    as i posted earlier in this thread: you can put turbo in a junker honda, but it's still junk when you're done.  i mean, you could do some blood doping to increase your ability to utilize oxygen, but if you are naturally winded after sprinting a block, that mod is not going to help you very much.  gotta get your baseline up.
  • Not all science should be done in a vaccuum. For a person willing to put foreign objects into your body, you seem awfully close minded. 
    Isn't real science also about curiosity. My curiosity led me to ask what would happen if... Then you, doing the real science seem to be saying "damn the general populus this is for me!" Talk about a sense of entitlement.
  • if i say "let's figure out how everyone can eat a delicious burger" and someone pipes up and says, "let's google the nearest mcdonalds" i am going to ignore or deride that individual. science is about curiosity. so is pulling the wings off flies. just because they both involve curiosity, please don't make the category error that they are both science.

    i'm not saying do science in a vacuum and i'm not saying that anyone else won't be allowed to see the research.  i'm saying that its a waste of time an energy to augment something that people seem intent on breaking. if your question was "what about normal body fat levels and a standard diet?" i wouldn't have thought twice.

    it's not entitlement. it's a fact. smokers and obese people die faster. they biologically function at sub par levels. this is reality, not my feelings.  i don't want to die. i think dying is stupid and "not fun". ipso facto, encouraging death behaviors is undesirable.
  • edited October 2013
    @ glims

    I completely agree. If someone came to the biohacking community and said that there was something that - with only four hours of maintenance a week they could add years to their life, improve their strength and endurance, fine tune the senses on top of making them more attractive and confident - people would jump on it. 

    Simply changing your diet and exercising regularly will have a much larger effect on your life than any possible current bio-hack.

    The way I see it, we are within a generation of revolutionary medical and cybernetic technology. The best thing you can be doing for yourself now is getting in shape and staying healthy. You will have a much better chance of a longer, happier life if you take care of your body. Think of the amount of change we see over a given four year period right now. That is the average amount added to your life if you exercise at least three hours a week. 

    I dont know. I just have an overpowering nostalgia for the future. I want to see as much of it as possible. 
  • edited October 2013
    If reducing bodyfat is your goal, a good strategy I use for rapid reductions in bodyfat is:

    Dietary energy restriction, maintaining protein intake >200g.d-1, getting essential fatty acids c50g.d-1 and have c200g carbs one day per week. Multi vit & min supplement taken with food.
    Lots of fluids
    Fibre as necessary to stave off hunger.
    Keep active throughout the day - move around, walk quickly, take the stairs, etc
    2x45min.d-1 cardio at c140-150bpm heart rate ( one in the morning and one in the eve).
    200mg.d-1 2,4 dinitrophenol taken orally ( wastes energy by inhibiting ATP synthesis and increases heat production )
    Caffeine c200mg before each cardio session.

    Fat loss is quite rapid. The DNP does need handling with care as it has serious risks (of death) if used poorly. There maybe some muscle loss on this, although anabolics prevent/reverse that problem. There are easier ways but if it is simply a matter of fixing BF prior to your experiment, then this is quite effective IME.

    All the best with the experiment.
  • @Joshua please tell me you don't rdun on DNP....... &keep the protein higher, skip the anabolic.
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