I want to insert a tube inside of my body

This is a complicated procedure and I know it is. I've been researching dermis layers, fascia and the underlaying fat as well as safe and clean methods to do what I want to do.

Basically, I'm wanting to insert a tube that runs from the side bottom of a torso and up to the side of the ribs just underneath the armpit where I'm wanting to put a thermo-electric generator coated in epoxy resin so it's bio-friendly, I'm wanting to run wiring through this tube which will eventually come out of the body at the side bottom of the torso.

I think the best route would be for me to run it through a layer of fat so I would have to put a cap on the tube to ensure no bio matter ends up inside the tube.

One complication is I've to have monthly head and neck MRI scans and monthly chest x-rays and I'm not sure how exactly I prevent micro movement of the metal parts or even to prevent it being ripped out of the body (lead blanket?) but what I'm wanting to achieve is maximum and consistant-as-possible heat reaching hot side of the thermo-electric generator.

I've been looking into surgical procedures involving a tube but it seems that so far surgeons only really use tubes if they're for feeding and they don't really run them up and down the body but push them through the abdomen and into the stomach which is a lot more simple than what I would like to achieve.

I just think that even if such method of power generation isn't efficient then I'm at the very least capturing waste body energy. I mean I don't get it, humans have a body that wastes a lot of its energy yet people don't even think to harvest it.

Wouldn't it be cool if it was you, your phone or whatever else and you could say you're off grid with the power such devices needs but also be able to say that the energy used to power those devices comes from the body and not some solar panel or windmill or whatever?

Another thing I've wanted to do is implant a computer system, a raspberry pi zero which I would also coat in epoxy resin, at full idle state they only require 30 mA and at a semi-idle state only require 360 mA.

On the cold side of the thermo-electric generator I would like to install a heatsink that would stick out of the side of the body to provide outer environment cooling to it so that the generator has a great temperature gradient.

I know that there will be fluctuations in power and that there would be times when it may not even produce much but I have a downconverter that protects itself from burnouts so that it isn't at risk of burning the body when implanted, it can convert an unstable power source down to a stable 5v supply.

The end of the wiring coming out of the body I would like to have a female USB A socket.

Any ideas?

Comments

  • Interesting idea. The harvest of energy from the body, in my opinion , is a necessity for cyborgs.

    One question why under the arm pit ? there is a lot of moving parts down there that pull and push in all direction daily. I would put more in the center of the chest where there are bones to anchor. Or on top of the spinal cord, Is more dangerous but It moves less and more predictable. Or since you are a woman the are a under the breast is a place where surgeons are very comfortable in putting implants. This would be a horizontal tube from one site of the rib cage to the other.

    As for tubes I might suggest the shower version. The rings can be attached at different body parts while leaving the other to move. https://google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.vanderbilt.edu%2Fvu-web%2Fengineering-wpcontent%2F20180508110326%2Firep_nupic20131.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fengineering.vanderbilt.edu%2Fnews%2F2018%2Fgetting-robotic-surgical-tools-from-the-lab-to-the-operating-room%2F&tbnid=W7hjcgnvWzVrEM&vet=12ahUKEwj42oajvfH3AhVM8bsIHUY6AQYQxiAoA3oECAAQJQ..i&docid=YeCKnPi6pSy36M&w=300&h=181&itg=1&q=micro%20tubes%20for%20surgery%20&ved=2ahUKEwj42oajvfH3AhVM8bsIHUY6AQYQxiAoA3oECAAQJQ#imgrc=W7hjcgnvWzVrEM&imgdii=3hbxeKcm5sxvhM

    It is an interesting idea.

  • edited May 22

    @kuroro86 said:
    Interesting idea. The harvest of energy from the body, in my opinion , is a necessity for cyborgs.

    One question why under the arm pit ? there is a lot of moving parts down there that pull and push in all direction daily. I would put more in the center of the chest where there are bones to anchor. Or on top of the spinal cord, Is more dangerous but It moves less and more predictable. Or since you are a woman the are a under the breast is a place where surgeons are very comfortable in putting implants. This would be a horizontal tube from one site of the rib cage to the other.

    As for tubes I might suggest the shower version. The rings can be attached at different body parts while leaving the other to move. https://google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.vanderbilt.edu%2Fvu-web%2Fengineering-wpcontent%2F20180508110326%2Firep_nupic20131.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fengineering.vanderbilt.edu%2Fnews%2F2018%2Fgetting-robotic-surgical-tools-from-the-lab-to-the-operating-room%2F&tbnid=W7hjcgnvWzVrEM&vet=12ahUKEwj42oajvfH3AhVM8bsIHUY6AQYQxiAoA3oECAAQJQ..i&docid=YeCKnPi6pSy36M&w=300&h=181&itg=1&q=micro%20tubes%20for%20surgery%20&ved=2ahUKEwj42oajvfH3AhVM8bsIHUY6AQYQxiAoA3oECAAQJQ#imgrc=W7hjcgnvWzVrEM&imgdii=3hbxeKcm5sxvhM

    It is an interesting idea.

    That's why I want it to be my first implant because I intend to only implant things if they don't need a power source connected to them or if they can be run off the body in some way and the body heat has a lot of energy unlike the electrons the body produces, even the blood is a battery in a way. I would even go from one thermoelectric implant to many if it comes to it.

    I thought of in the armpits because I took into consideration that it's one of the hottest parts of the body but now you mention why there I've come to realize that those temperature statistic are about surface temperature and where to stick a thermometer. The chest is probably a great idea for the reason you said.

    I'm a 38B cup so probably have plenty of breast flesh for this but I think I would rather put the implant somewhere else because I don't know, I think the surface needs to be flat and not a cup or something, thermoelectric generators are flat, they have a hot side and a cold side so one side has to face the skin, I have some resources from NASA on this where they show the best place to put a thermoelectric generator into the body. Also your URL wouldn't load.

  • I would like to show you this:
    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/images/content/108338main_humanimp1.jpg

    Also, I would like my question about MRI scans answered.

  • edited May 22

    My suggestion is to put the implant under the breast an not in it. Hope you can see the picture. for same reason is under this comment.

    The second one is the shape used for surgical tubes. The can move around, but not too much.

    Could you upload the full papier from NASA ? The picture is to simply for me to understand what you are trying to explain.

    I'm not sure if I understood correctly you need now to have monthly and it would be a problem. Or you want to have monthly MRI scans?

    I would suggest to build it using gold. Good thermic , but they aren't magnetic. There are different plastics or ceramics used for implants that could help.

  • @kuroro86 said:
    My suggestion is to put the implant under the breast an not in it. Hope you can see the picture. for same reason is under this comment.

    The second one is the shape used for surgical tubes. The can move around, but not too much.

    Could you upload the full papier from NASA ? The picture is to simply for me to understand what you are trying to explain.

    I'm not sure if I understood correctly you need now to have monthly and it would be a problem. Or you want to have monthly MRI scans?

    I would suggest to build it using gold. Good thermic , but they aren't magnetic. There are different plastics or ceramics used for implants that could help.

    Okay yes, that's a good location to put the implant but doesn't feel very warm there, maybe it's just the surface temperature but hot underneath.

    Here is the full NASA paper: https://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/technology-onepagers/human_devices.html

    I have to have the MRI scans because I have a skull base cancer that I've to live with for the rest of my life.

    Gold seems like a very good solution, thank you.

    How come the tube needs curvatures?

  • @Helenah If I understand correctly the papier the difference in temperature between the body temperatures "Internal applications take advantage of the gradients within the body between the core and the skin, generally 2-7'C," I do not believe you need that much temperature to get that distance. Especially if you are wearing clothes. But the problem is the papier doesn't say what is the minimum temperature to work with.
    The under should be always warmer. the core is closer to blood vassals and it is surrounded by fats.

    Thank you for it.

    Sorry to hear. Did you ask to your surgeon if the possibility of swapping most of your skull would help ? https://www.medicaldesignandoutsourcing.com/depuy-synthes-3d-printed-implant-skull/

    Your body constantly is moving, and so everything inside your body. When you breath your entire chest moves. Gravity always pushes on your body and from different direction. When you walk, when you sleep or do physical activity. Fun fact most implant and magnets move in the body and in the course of years they can move several centimeters. Having the implant break down in small pieces that can move according to the body can help avoid excessive stress to the body parts in direct contact with the implant. The tube should be able to bend, a bit, not have solid curvatures

  • @kuroro86 said:
    @Helenah If I understand correctly the papier the difference in temperature between the body temperatures "Internal applications take advantage of the gradients within the body between the core and the skin, generally 2-7'C," I do not believe you need that much temperature to get that distance. Especially if you are wearing clothes. But the problem is the papier doesn't say what is the minimum temperature to work with.
    The under should be always warmer. the core is closer to blood vassals and it is surrounded by fats.

    Thank you for it.

    Sorry to hear. Did you ask to your surgeon if the possibility of swapping most of your skull would help ? https://www.medicaldesignandoutsourcing.com/depuy-synthes-3d-printed-implant-skull/

    Your body constantly is moving, and so everything inside your body. When you breath your entire chest moves. Gravity always pushes on your body and from different direction. When you walk, when you sleep or do physical activity. Fun fact most implant and magnets move in the body and in the course of years they can move several centimeters. Having the implant break down in small pieces that can move according to the body can help avoid excessive stress to the body parts in direct contact with the implant. The tube should be able to bend, a bit, not have solid curvatures

    I am in the UK, the majority of people here only have the money to access the state healthcare system which is free to the point of use and funded by taxes. The NHS is extremely pre-cautious, they will only carry out treatments which are deemed necessary by "NHS England" because I am in England. NHS England is a governing body of the NHS in England, NHS England tops up the funding pots of the NHS hospitals, NHS clinics, NHS whatever in England, they will only fund what they see how necessary treatments.

    That being said, there will be no way to convince an NHS surgeon into replacing my skull as such isn't clinically approved and they can only do what is funded and granted by NHS England.

    Even private healthcare in the UK is difficult to get because a referral to a private specialist by your GP (General Practitioner) is a requirement and he is not obliged to do that nor is he allowed to accept bribes, infact bribes put his job on the line and I don't have the substantial amount of cash required to even make a bribe possible.

    To go more into detail about my financial status, I am on welfare due to the inability to work, I am unemployable and at current am trying to pursue a work from home business to pay the rent and not be reliant on the welfare system, anything more than that would be an added bonus.

    I would love to have my clivus or entire skull replaced but even a surgeon who will be willing to do that would be extremely difficult find. Even the surgery Neill had was more achievable because he didn't have a skull/bone replacement, he had an antenna implanted into the occipital part of the skull, yes it's still invasive and risky but no where near the level of an entire skull/bone replacement and in comparison to what Neill had, a tube implant into the fat is nothing but yes realistically still has its own risks.

  • What I mean is, the NHS has to approve a treatment. If I was to ask for them to do a skull replacement, they would turn around and say "Sorry, we don't provide that treatment on the NHS".

    It is however interesting and I like it.

  • I would try to ask it. They did it for Tiffany Cullern in the UK. Maybe is simply not known, but they should do it.

  • @kuroro86 said:
    I would try to ask it. They did it for Tiffany Cullern in the UK. Maybe is simply not known, but they should do it.

    She would've had it done privately in the UK. Plus a lot of NHS specialists (surgeons, oncologists, etc), basically any medical folk who is more than simply a doctor or nurse tend to work privately too for the big money.

    And the NHS is soo scared of infection that they wouldn't like it if she held the skull with her bare hands like that for a photo.

    I was diagnosed with mango allergy and neck RSI and the ridiculous thing is, after 3 months of battling a doctor weekly for some proper help I ended up going to an optician complaining about being cross eyed, they did eye tests and they said "Nothing is wrong with your eyes, this is something that needs to be dealt with by a hospital" so I said "Well tell that to my GP who constantly keeps blaming my problems on unrelated things then" and he said "Okay well I was write a letter to the local hospital" and from then on the local hospital had me see 3 eye doctors on the same day then put me on for an MRI scan and that got the ball moving.

    My 12th right palsy (which I still have) was blamed on a mango allergy I don't even have because my tongue would swell and tense up intermittently at random causing speech problems and a blockage in my throat, now it's just simply deviated on one side since my first ever debulking but doesn't do the tensing, swelling and blockage business nor does it cause speech problems.

    My occipital neuralgia was blamed on neck RSI and excessive computer use was claimed to have been the cause. I still have occipital neuralgia.

    My eye problem was a left 6th palsy which is now gone since my first debulking.

    When my tumour has grown back to a substantial size, I now get shoulder drooping (this happened twice when it grew back) and second time is now.

    Seriously though, I don't even know if I actually have a risk of damage to the skull through an accident such as a car crash or being hit by a ball or whether it's just the usual NHS pre-caution bullshit but one benefit the neck brace for certain provides is a more natural form of pain relief which allows me be reduce the use of pharmacauticals (naproxen and co-codamol).

    I think if I was to have a skull or clivus replacement then I would be best actually getting it check out properly privately to see what the actual state of it is because I'm telling you the NHS won't support this, it isn't a treatment approved by NHS England and they won't spend money on non-approved treatments, money which is precious tax payers money, it would also take a consultant to deem the treatment as necessary too.

  • Hey, glad you found the forum! You should buy a peltier thermoelectric generator for a few pounds online and try it out so you have a better understanding of it's performance. Pretty much anywhere inside the body you will not have a sufficient temperature gradient to create any appreciable amount of power. You will need to create a transdermal with a heatsink like you mentioned in one of your later posts, and even then you'll only be generating microwatts of power. If you want to do some research into that space though and try and work something out people here will definitely be willing to help out.

    Regarding MRIs, there are several things you need to do to prevent issues. From a mechanical damage or heat damage perspective, you need to make sure there's as few ferromagnetic parts as possible. That means no steel component leads, part casings, or connectors. From an ESD perspective you need to make sure that copper traces and wire segments are as short as possible, and that there are no pieces of metal that could act as inductors.

    A layer of lead will have no affect on the field from an MRI because it is not really a forum of radiation. In some cases they use mu metal as shielding for MRIs because it has a very high relative permeability, so the magnetic fields preferentially travels through it instead of the shielded body part. That is some high order magnetics to implement correctly though, and if implemented incorrectly it will heat up, so I definitely don't recommend it. Plus nickel is very heavy and reactive in the body so that's not a good addition to an implant.
  • @Satur9 Do you have a peltier thermoelectric generator to suggest ?

  • Well, availability entirely depends on your region. I'm in the US so I usually would use eBay, Digikey, Mouser, or Alibaba. I've attached a picture of what they look like. You can use search terms like "Peltier thermo electric generator module TEG" and you'll definitely find some. Their output voltage varies considerably depending on the magnitude of the temperature gradient between the ceramic plates, so they're usually rated for a maximum current value like "8A" for 8 Amps. I've also attached a characteristic response graph for several models.

    It doesn't really matter which one you pick because I'm just trying to highlight how difficult it is to generate power from such a small heat differential.
  • edited May 26

    @Satur9 Well it is true that the power is small but we also only want to power up sensors and short range communication like Bluetooth. No need for a lot of power. Plus this ones are 40mm small we can put multiple one next to the other to generate more energy.

  • You're definitely limited in how much vasculature you can interrupt with these plates, and how much (if any) transdermal space you can maintain on the body to allow heat sinking. Seems like a huge sacrifice for a few mA of power, especially when the average Bluetooth radio is using 10mA+ and sensors consume a non negligible amount of power because of the processor that is necessary to read them.

    I'm not trying to be a nay sayer, I just think it's helpful to be practical. You'll get a lot more energy for a lot smaller sacrifice if you use wireless power transfer from an external power source or even something like glucose biofuel cells.
  • I take that bit about the glucose biofuel cells back. With the most efficient I could find you're only getting 43uW/cm². That's 0.26mA at 3.3V if you have 20cm² of area, and it has to be in contact with blood (not encapsulated in fibrin sheathing).

    I mean go for it, try out the peltier modules and see how much power you can get with a soft heat transfer material at 37°C on one side, and air at ~21°C on the other. I might have some lying around if you want me to try anything.
  • Wouldn't the most obvious place for a peltier device to be on the surface of the skin, where the temperature gradient is highest?

  • @Frank That is correct, the question is where to anchor the hardware. You don't want it to pull your skin. Or to slowly slide in a painful position.

  • Plus, at some point you need to transition through the skin, either at the edges of the peltier plate or just with wire contacts. Creating reliable transdermals is no small feat
  • So it's not worth it babe I'm that's 8640 wh to 5v it's 1.7 mha 8640 being 360daysx24hours
  • Do not get that surgery babe it's not worth the meal ticket go put your month in NetSpend and live off 1000 usd a month increase. If something doesn't profit its of the devil. And 65 charges is not worth a meal ticket and all the pain of that surgery per year 66 charges I did the math again you'll get 19 days worth the charges and have to wait a year to reboot unless you can charge off the wall
  • Some questions and edifying will be needed to make your idea profitable. So now if you charge off the wall at 12v how long will it take you to charge the tube? Thats one thing you need to look into and how you'll charge off the wall. So figure these out and what they're worth before you get the implant babe.
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