Is there anything I'm forgeting?

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Comments

  • The big difference is that it isn't going to be an open wound. When you close something up under skin the risk are much much higher. When you get some random gash the body pushes shit out.. but far worse is something like stepping on a nail. You get spores pushed deeply into the body and the opening seals right after you pull out the nail. Gram negative rods in a culture is considered a critical result.. meaning if something isnt done quickly the person will lose limbs or die. Wet gangrene isn't fun. This stuff isn't fun, but it is more common then you know. I deal with it all the time. Trust me, sterilize.
  • One other thing.. a lot of people spend a lot of time and effort honing their skills and abilities. We make sure were doing things right and safely. If you choose not to, its your prerogative but please don't consider yourself a grinder or bio hacker. We get enough shit from people for the things we actually do. What we dont do is perform half ass procedures with non-sterile equipment. So make sure that if you do this not to associate with us. It's something people do.. but it isnt what those in this movement do. I think teaching and sharing is important but once people start talking about doing an implant without sterile equipment, I'm out. I don't think you're ready for this. Do more research or you're going to hurt someone.
  • Ok, so I was 50/50 about my tone on the previous responses. I'm going to even cut this response and turn it into a thread altogether because I think it has more global importance. Even spoke to a mod regarding appropriateness as I'm not great with interpersonal yada yada. I want to emphasize, I'm not trying to be a dick; this really is an important distinction. There are tons of ways people define Grinding. It's still a common discussion even. I mean, look at Zwytechs class things he's been working so hard on.. how did he begin? By giving his definition. I'm not claiming ownership. I'm not trying to say my version is the one true version.. but there are certain values which we as a community share. These values have a function.
    You can dig back to when Gabriel and I had our "breakup" re: Science for the Masses. I've sniped at him and at thought emporium plenty of times. There are other well known rifts too. This isn't me and a bunch of my friends deciding on some arbitrary set of values.. I think Glims and Chironex and I are cool now, but even at our most "fuck you" times, I never said they aren't "Grinders." (I don't care what you call it; I'm talking about this community.) They adhere to a similar set of values.

    1. Do at least as much as you talk: Transporters and FTL drives.. even life extension.. Most of us ARE interested in what may manifest 100, 1000, or 10,000 years from now. It's fun to speculate. But that's not what we're here to do. Grinding is doing. Grinding is now. Grinding is a verb. An LED implant may be crude low-tech bullshit. The reason we're interested in doing such things is because it's a step in the right direction. I don't care about magnet implants. The reason I've spent years obsessing over it is because if we can't get a damn magnet implanted without failure it isn't worth even bringing up BCI and the like. GRINDING IS DOING.

    2. Grinding is repeatable, reproducible, measurable, and open. You think crystals will charge your Chakras? Good for you! But unless you're able to give a repeatable, reproducible way of measuring this? You're full of shit as far as I'm concerned. You've discovered a nootropic that's "just like limitless?" Good for you! But if you're not willing to share your methods, findings, and mechanism? You're wasting my time.

    3. Grinders demonstrate due diligence. Sure, we don't all have cutting lasers and DaVinci robots to perform surgery for us. Because what we're doing is generally superficial and small, we can get away with "cutting corners." But this is only acceptable when it's due to the inability to do better. Single use disposable sterile scalpels are inexpensive and easily purchased from Amazon and the like. If you're using an exacto knife, you're unnecessarily increasing risk and doing things half ass. Cleaning your tools with alcohol isn't good enough. If you don't know why, then you shouldn't be doing the procedure. We are a teaching community. You aren't expected to be an expert, but you are expected to have done the due diligence needed to be safe. We don't criticize a lack of knowledge but we do criticize someone doing something they lack the knowledge to do safely. We may do unsafe things, but we always make them as safe as they can be within reason.
      Yes, at one point we were using hot glue guns, exacto knives, and ice. But we've grown as a community and learned. The resources are available. There is no excuse to do things half ass. If you can't afford sterile equipment, then the "hack" you need is to increase your income. If you can't find the information you need to do something safely? Scientific literacy is the hack you need. Don't do things half ass. It isn't Grinding.

  • @Cassox said:
    It's seldom beneficial. It's better to keep it clean and dry. It will heal much more quickly. Maceration often leads to failure.

    If regular application of triple anti-bac isn't the best course of action for after-care because it causes maceration, we should update the Wiki

    "Immediately after the implant you should have covered the fresh wound in a small dab of this stuff. Re-apply often as you change your bandages. Furthermore this regime should be continued for at least 2 weeks, ideally until the wound is completely closed and even a bit after that just to be sure. When changing a bandage, rinse off with sterile saline (also from the drug store, comes in a squirt bottle or you can use contact lens solution) then reapply triple antibac and a fresh bandage"

    I've been following this advice for a few days following a recent implant and everything looks fine, but I want to make sure I'm following best practices. Sorry to defer the work of updating it to someone else, but I don't think I'm the most qualified.

  • @Cassox said:
    Ok, so I was 50/50 about my tone on the previous responses. I'm going to even cut this response and turn it into a thread altogether because I think it has more global importance. Even spoke to a mod regarding appropriateness as I'm not great with interpersonal yada yada. I want to emphasize, I'm not trying to be a dick; this really is an important distinction. There are tons of ways people define Grinding. It's still a common discussion even. I mean, look at Zwytechs class things he's been working so hard on.. how did he begin? By giving his definition. I'm not claiming ownership. I'm not trying to say my version is the one true version.. but there are certain values which we as a community share. These values have a function.
    You can dig back to when Gabriel and I had our "breakup" re: Science for the Masses. I've sniped at him and at thought emporium plenty of times. There are other well known rifts too. This isn't me and a bunch of my friends deciding on some arbitrary set of values.. I think Glims and Chironex and I are cool now, but even at our most "fuck you" times, I never said they aren't "Grinders." (I don't care what you call it; I'm talking about this community.) They adhere to a similar set of values.

    1. Do at least as much as you talk: Transporters and FTL drives.. even life extension.. Most of us ARE interested in what may manifest 100, 1000, or 10,000 years from now. It's fun to speculate. But that's not what we're here to do. Grinding is doing. Grinding is now. Grinding is a verb. An LED implant may be crude low-tech bullshit. The reason we're interested in doing such things is because it's a step in the right direction. I don't care about magnet implants. The reason I've spent years obsessing over it is because if we can't get a damn magnet implanted without failure it isn't worth even bringing up BCI and the like. GRINDING IS DOING.

    2. Grinding is repeatable, reproducible, measurable, and open. You think crystals will charge your Chakras? Good for you! But unless you're able to give a repeatable, reproducible way of measuring this? You're full of shit as far as I'm concerned. You've discovered a nootropic that's "just like limitless?" Good for you! But if you're not willing to share your methods, findings, and mechanism? You're wasting my time.

    3. Grinders demonstrate due diligence. Sure, we don't all have cutting lasers and DaVinci robots to perform surgery for us. Because what we're doing is generally superficial and small, we can get away with "cutting corners." But this is only acceptable when it's due to the inability to do better. Single use disposable sterile scalpels are inexpensive and easily purchased from Amazon and the like. If you're using an exacto knife, you're unnecessarily increasing risk and doing things half ass. Cleaning your tools with alcohol isn't good enough. If you don't know why, then you shouldn't be doing the procedure. We are a teaching community. You aren't expected to be an expert, but you are expected to have done the due diligence needed to be safe. We don't criticize a lack of knowledge but we do criticize someone doing something they lack the knowledge to do safely. We may do unsafe things, but we always make them as safe as they can be within reason.
      Yes, at one point we were using hot glue guns, exacto knives, and ice. But we've grown as a community and learned. The resources are available. There is no excuse to do things half ass. If you can't afford sterile equipment, then the "hack" you need is to increase your income. If you can't find the information you need to do something safely? Scientific literacy is the hack you need. Don't do things half ass. It isn't Grinding.

    I second this with every fiber of my being

    @Satur9 said:

    @Cassox said:
    It's seldom beneficial. It's better to keep it clean and dry. It will heal much more quickly. Maceration often leads to failure.

    If regular application of triple anti-bac isn't the best course of action for after-care because it causes maceration, we should update the Wiki

    "Immediately after the implant you should have covered the fresh wound in a small dab of this stuff. Re-apply often as you change your bandages. Furthermore this regime should be continued for at least 2 weeks, ideally until the wound is completely closed and even a bit after that just to be sure. When changing a bandage, rinse off with sterile saline (also from the drug store, comes in a squirt bottle or you can use contact lens solution) then reapply triple antibac and a fresh bandage"

    I've been following this advice for a few days following a recent implant and everything looks fine, but I want to make sure I'm following best practices. Sorry to defer the work of updating it to someone else, but I don't think I'm the most qualified.

    Maceration is primarily only a concern when application is abused or the cream is particularly inhospitable to the point of decreasing healing. Personally i'd stick with iodine during the procedure and very clean bandages regularly changed instead of antibac cream, but to each his own and this is a case of pick your poison

  • To further on my above comment, as Cassox mentioned, the primary concern with infection comes from the object being enclosed in flesh and the tools used not generally ambient bacteria after the procedure. Ambient bacteria is obviously certainly a thing, I don't recommend sticking your hand in a sewer, but the biggest objective is sanitized equipment. Focusing on that will help reduce incidents of maceration from people overusing creams.

    I think someone mentioned this earlier in this thread, but i'm stressing it again: IODINE INSTEAD OF ETHANOL

  • Agreed. Or chlorhexidine hcl.
  • Definitely iodine or chlorhexidine pre-procedure.

    My statement about updating the Wiki stands. I don't know if it's common practice, but I was looking for after-care recommendations and I followed the advice listed there. If we want to prevent less familiar people from accidentally causing maceration, the wording of the wiki needs to be dialed back so triple antibac and saline don't seem like the be-all-end-all. At least there should be an addendum about the possibility of maceration. I didn't even know that was what over-hydrated skin whitening was called before I came here.
  • I agree. I totally intend to finish up the class content on my site also. I'm going to use photos from the procedural class. An antibac ointment really shouldn't be used unless there's an actual infection. There's some debate regarding it's use with sutures. Some providers choose to put ointment over sutures preventatively but most don't.
  • Believe it or not, petrolatum does a better job then triple antibiotic on a non infected wound in terms of minimizing scarring and increasing speed of healing.
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