SMM TiN magnets

2

Comments

  • The thing with the extra salty water though.. it shouldn't matter really. I mean this shit should survive a bench grinder much less extra salty ness
  • Ok. Looks like I have 2 others the have dark spots on them. They are still magnetic but they look like pinhole development.
  • @Cassox Confirmed. Use bench grinder to prepare magnets.

  • No. No. I didn't mean that. Use the bench grinder for your implant method.
  • What do you call a sidelined biohacker?

    A bench grinder!

  • edited July 2018
    Two week update: Still healing. No signs of rejection, far as I can tell. Photos attached. The whole-finger numbness I experienced following the procedure has reduced pretty dramatically, but has not completely dissipated as of yet.

    The magnets that were not implanted have been submerged in warm salt and detergent water for 18 days. None of them show any signs of oxidizing, observed at 100x by microscope. Important note for this: on at least 2 of the 4 magnets, I found one or more tiny gaps (or so it appeared) in the TiN coating, revealing a silver metal underneath. It is worth noting that none of these appear to have rusted or oxidized in any way so far. That said, in the future, I will not implant anything again without observing under a microscope.

    The low sensitivity I'm experiencing right now isn't very surprising, given the aforementioned numbness. It remains pretty uncomfortable to, say, squeeze a steering wheel, which still results in a small, mild yet sharp pain. The slight bulge/lump I mentioned hasn't increased or decreased, and appears to be here to stay. I'd be interested to know others experiences of whether they experienced the same on a good implant.

    Cheers
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=19-YTAGaRfEOZKFOPPR0yORqXpVTYouf0
  • edited July 2018

    @SimplyTom said:
    Also why did you plaster a buncha stuff all over the forum?...what do they call those nowdays? Flamers? No. Spammer?

    Wait was that accusation meant for me? My apologies for trying to make sure implants are done on sound, safe science.

    @SimplyTom said:
    As far as I know they don't have a coating under the TiN. They buy them from someone and package them. Least that's what I've read off other posts. Which I would encourage

    I've personally spoken with representatives at SMM, and i've been told they do have layers underneath. Contact them yourself instead of relying on other, potentially inaccurate, information.

    @Cassox said:
    Interesting. I'm going to do a follow up blog soon. I'm not going to do the autoclave test after all. It might have been good if most were surving but we know most aren't. I'm going to try out something else I've read about. We can put it in a saline that we're running a charge through. This might induce a now really break down in magnets that are susceptible. I mean, if we even got 1/20.. but we had a method which guarantees that one is perfect.. then SMM magnets would do be worth it. Still, I have my doubts.

    Would my links to galvanic corrosion have anything to do with that? That's smart, by the way. I was researching something very similar, but you have to take into account the electrolyte concentration (sodium) and the fact it could deter most of the current from passing through the anode and cathode preventing corrosion which could give you a false positive on a safe coating. Using galvanic corrosion to test is also risky because you are corroding the magnet, and a test that is looking for the coatings ability to prevent corrosion would be safer if you're looking to implant instead of just doing quick
    testing.

    @McSTUFF said:
    I mentioned the water with excessive salt. I have NO idea if this had any effect on the test. I was hoping someone could clarify for me.
    When I mixed the salt water, I put a few grains of salt into my containers, added water, then tossed in a magnet. I never shook or stirred the salt and water and I saw swirls at the bottom where they had not mixed. Please don't make any assumptions about the effects of this extra-salty water and TiN.

    A normal blood sodium level is between 135 and 145 milliequivalents per liter (mEq/L). I'd start with approximately 200 mEq/L in order to facilitate breakdown faster than your own blood would (Of course with the exception of your immune system, but titanium/TiN is biologically inert.) Ocean water is approximately pH 8.1, and your blood is 7.35 to 7.45. I highly doubt that the alkalinity of the solution degraded the TiN, but keep in mind that salt water is a 3.5% sodium solution. Cassox is recommending a much higher percentage, which is an acidic solution at a pH of 5.5.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638298/

  • I'm really not considering the pH to be a major contributor to break down to be honest. I've heard of batches being immersed in a strong acid without any changes. I agree it's a variable we should control. We could buffer the pH to around 7 easily.
  • Ok, so anyone have any input on standardized testing with a saline solution?
  • All of my 20 magnets fine. No rust or changes in color or etc. Now 3 days soaking in strong salt soap water, and one in my finger
  • Welp, I think mine's gonna need to come out. I'll probably do it tonight. It hasn't shown signs of rejection or anything, but I feel I didn't put it in deeply enough. 2 weeks in, there's still a small, painful lump on the finger that doesn't appear to be going anywhere. I may go again. Different finger, steeper blade angle. Thoughts anyone?

  • @rytcd could you post a image of the implantation site?
  • I did, bud. Look up :)
  • Oh, i see.
  • edited July 2018

    Can you tell if the bump is from the magnet or from inflammation? Just wondering. It's a good idea to remove it anyways. If it is from the magnet, it is most likely too shallow and will end up being rejected and then ejected from the body. If it is from inflammation, after 2 weeks, I'd be worried about it either being infected, being rejected as we speak, or possibly it degrading. Either way, probably a good idea to remove it and then check the magnet. See if it shows signs of degradation.

  • Well, like I said before, there's no real inflammation or the like. It appears to have simply been put in too shallow. Not sure I'm clear on how to properly gauge depth during implantation.

  • That's the biggest reason I'm having a friend who knows this sort of stuff do mine, otherwise I would do it. It is pretty hard to tell. Take what I say with a grain of salt, but mid/deep dermis is about 2mm deep. But this depends on a lot of factors. As long as your pocket is deep enough where your blade isn't super visible but not NOT visible, you should be good. Skin on your hands is thick, especially near the pads of your fingers, so I'd say a good depth for magnet implants is about 2mm. If you can open the incision to "peek in" that would definitely make things easier. Shiny yellow = bad. That's adipose tissue... not as many nerves by a long shot. Too deep.

    I'm sure someone who's actually done it could offer more help, but I'll try to offer as much help as I can while you wait based on my knowledge of human anatomy. 2mm should be good, but that's sorta hard to tell from a tiny incision LOL. Good luck man.

    ; It looks like in this video the pocket is made about 2-3mm below the skin. But this was also directly in the pad of his finger, where the skin is thicker, so I would try to go about 2mm if you're going on the side of your pad.

  • Update here too
    My 19 magnet (one in my finger) batch have been soaking in strong salt soap water for 4-5days and only 1magnet of all the 19 have started rusting.
  • My magnet is right in the middle of my index finger, cut was made from the side of the finger ofc, magnet is resting just where the reddish tissue starts (not between skin and red tissue).
    If i take another magnet i can see the magnet roughly thru the skin, scalpel wast visible when cutting.
  • @Rytcd My inflammation is finally starting to subside after a month. My procedure was pretty overly-harsh, however, I wanted to be sure that it was deep.
  • @nothot said:
    @Rytcd My inflammation is finally starting to subside after a month. My procedure was pretty overly-harsh, however, I wanted to be sure that it was deep.

    That is likely why you've reported a lack of sensation, your nerve bundles decrease largely the farther down in mm you go on the pad of your finger. If you had to estimate how many mm's down did you implant?

  • @ThermalWinter It was definitely subdermal. The length from the incision was probably 8 or 9 mm as I also feared my body pushing it out before it got a chance to heal. As of now, I’m finally gaining even more sensitivity as the nerves grow back. I’m glad I did as well since I pushed the magnet to the end of the pocket but it’s been pushed almost all the way to the incision point. Thankfully, my body healed the skin over before it could push it out.
  • edited July 2018

    @nothot said:
    @ThermalWinter It was definitely subdermal. The length from the incision was probably 8 or 9 mm as I also feared my body pushing it out before it got a chance to heal. As of now, I’m finally gaining even more sensitivity as the nerves grow back. I’m glad I did as well since I pushed the magnet to the end of the pocket but it’s been pushed almost all the way to the incision point. Thankfully, my body healed the skin over before it could push it out.

    How many mm's below the surface would you estimate it to be? My apologies if this is redundant but how long ago was the procedure done so I can get an idea of nerve regrowth?

  • @ThermalWinter I’m not sure how many mm; but I would guess about 2 mm because it was subcutaneous tissue. It’s been a little over a month.
  • I've actually removed my magnet. Microscope inspection still looks quite clean. The bump was just too much.
  • edited July 2018
    @Rytcd The bump from mine is almost gone. You should’ve hung in there a bit longer lol.
  • Oh? Mine didn't seem to have changed in size since implantation. There wasn't any inflammation or swelling, it just seemed to be magnet pushing up skin.

  • *New update*
    5 of the 15 magnets have rusted. It's easy to tell when they do because the water turns brown. 10 of them are still sitting in solution with no effects.
  • One more rusted today. I'm down to 9 now.
  • edited August 2018
    I feel fortunate that my magnet hasn’t degraded (yet).

    Next implant I’ll do more thorough washing and testing
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