RFID polypropylene sheath / parylene coating pros/cons

I am thinking of getting an RFID implant and have a question about coatings.
Do polypropylene sheaths act as anti-migration and prevent easy removal?

I see that parylene will bond to tissue but don't see a clear answer for polypropylene.

Now I have a choice to buy with or without polypropylene or parylene so I would like to understand the pros and cons of each.

Thank you.


  • You want a glass coated tag with no coatings, in a sterile injector. Get one from cyberise.me or dangerousthings.com, don't mess with cheap ass animal tags from China.
  • Meh. What makes their tags better?
  • It is possible for the bioglass to snap more easily if the wall is too thin.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the tags from Dangerous Things are from the same 'cheap ass' factory.

    The 'better' part is that they've been used hundreds/thousands of times and seem to be safe from breaking.

    You can pay these factories a few cents extra per unit to have the workers pay attention to what they are doing and run a couple tests.

    I don't see anything else that would make them better.

  • I listened to an interview Amal did where he talked about the creation of the tags. When he first started looking around for personal use he found all these cheap suppliers using cheap materials with no quality control and using non biosafe epoxys. His original intention was to create something for himself that he would feel comfortable using. He supposedly sources all his own materials and does a lot of testing before bringing a tag to market. His name is pretty big and it wouldn't do him any good to bring a substandard product to the market.
    Now I don't know how true all this is but he seems like an awesome guy who genuinely cares about the biohacker movement. I dont know about you but I am personally inclined to trust him over some Chinese company no one has heard of. Just my two cents
  • See, I get what you're saying.. but it means we're no longer grinders. We're consumers too lazy to figure it out ourselves. I love Amal; I'm totally supporting of his endeavors. His products are great. However, I refuse just have brand loyalty and ignore other options.
    Rfids are becoming mainstream and for those consumers, DT is a great choice. But that's not what this forum is for. If you'd like to do a comparison and tell us why his are better... Beyond a sense of brand loyalty.. by all means.. that's great. However, realize that it would just be a spring board for grinders. People would use the data to figure out how to make a better one. And that's ok.
  • edited July 2018
    I think so many people are jumping into these forums now that they're confused as to what it means to be a biohacker.. a grinder..Simply having hardware in your body doesn't mean shit. We're more then a fan club.
  • @Cassox is this the biggest forum? I came looking for grinder projects and to see what people have managed to do. Seems like there are only a handful or two of people with the DIY grinder spirit that I expected.

  • Unfortunately, the forums are pretty dead in terms of people actually doing anything. There are a few really active teams as well as a couple individuals that are constantly working on grinds. The slack board is better for those purposes. If you go back to the first couple of years of the forum it was pretty good. Now, people just keep repeating myths, repeating mistakes that should have been learned from etc. There are three major reasons for it really. One is people being media whores.. a number of people have really fucked up any sense of integrity in the community by making huge silly unsupported claims in order attract the media. Another issue is money. As soon as a person thinks they're onto something they start trying to protect and hide their idea so they don't get scooped and can someday make millions or something. Don't misunderstand me. The few successful companies are actually quite ethical and their owners are people I call friends.. Furthermore, I'm affected by this too. I think all the time about how I could do this full time.. I mean I could do do much more that it's frustrating! Finally, there's a definite tolerance issue. On one hand.. why the fuck do we have ten threads with the title SMM Implant or whatever? I really have next to no interest in magnets. I'm sick to fucking death of talking about magnets... But it's a great way to test out coatings.. an issue I really am interested in. After a while people go elsewhere because it's just a sounding board for people asking the same crap about magnets and rfid...OR you'll have someone who actually does try to brainstorm something new and creative and rather then being welcomed they get treated like idiots because they dared to express their incomplete and thus flawed ideas. It's become an environment where people are afraid to look stupid.
  • It's really almost become news for biohackers. People share things like upcoming events and projects.. but it isn't a place where people collaborate right now. I'm interested in changing this though. There's been a lot of discussion about shared values and goals in the community and I've been trying to push the most basic of these value far more strongly then I previously did.

    As critical as my assessment may sound though.. it's not a loss. There's still a ton of potential here. Boards like this stagnate and then suddenly become a garden of Ideas.. and then back again. There's no reason to force it.
  • I think the solution is to work out the solutions to the easy immediate problems. Every wants a magnet? Ok. Cool. I've figured out a reliable biocompatible coating you can do at home. It's been awesome.. but I'm always terrified of being wrong so I keep putting off releasing the info.
  • Same with RFID tech. We need a good well researched comparison of implants.. not assumptions and unverifiable claims.
  • Ranting.. sorry. It's hour 18 for me in the ER.
  • To be a bit clearer, I think the community is healthy and growing. I think the forums need.. reinforcement of select values such as integrity as evidenced by due diligence, and safety. Beyond that I think we need more tolerance for differing levels of education. We need to allow for flights of fancy and speculation. We need to bring in more, I read this cool shit, and what ifs. Honestly, if you come to grindfest or defcon or other gatherings dude we love each other. We take care of each other. We laugh and enjoy each other's company.. is it just me or does the forum feel like people competing to sound smart? Not totally, but it doesn't feel like how being in a room full of grinders feels.
  • edited July 2018

    @Cassox I've been living in a box called Japan for 8 years and honestly don't know what slack is, this is only my second time hearing about it, I'll look into that.

    It's not exactly the easiest topic to experiment with so lack of innovation is reasonable. Building the momentum to keep rolling is difficult.

    Myself I cannot implant anything that would not be MRI safe because I work around linear magnets. Things have been pulled out of my hands and pockets a few times, having something ripped out of my flesh does not seem fun. Magnet implants are out of the question.

    Learning and being able to learn is key I think.
    I can program, soldier 800 wires into receptacles per hour and hack hundred thousand dollar machines back to life from the scrap collection in my desk.
    But I know nothing about cutting myself open and shoving things under my skin. You need an environment that can let people fill in the blanks.

    I tried to google my original question and got pages about breast implants... not complaining but it didn't help. Community is important for niche topics otherwise the useful information is drowned out by mainstream algorithms.

  • edited July 2018
    > @Cassox said:
    > Same with RFID tech. We need a good well researched comparison of implants.. not assumptions and unverifiable claims.

    You're right here....
    I also would love a detailed comparison between the DT xNT implants that is 100$/piece and Chinese sterile ntag216 in EO gas, with polypropylene sheath for 26$/10pieces...of course I think the quality control may be different but still, investigation would be appreciated.
  • Yes, I'd be curious also between the types of coating...
  • I found this photo which shows the coatings very well. Left is a polypropylene-sheath/cap, center is parylene, right is not coated.

    There is a small amount of additional information on this page, please be aware that it is a FAQ page from a RFid maker and not a research document so it is subject to bias and marketing:

  • Well that's nice, so the parylene one you can actually tell with the naked eye, learned something new...
  • edited August 2018
    @rodanco yes it has a clear haze to it. I attached another photo sent by my seller. The one on the right has parylene.

    According to the seller the black part on the bottom of the tags is some sort of adhesive inside the glass to keep the coil together.
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