Has anyone shot yourself with Capsaicin?
Have you played with Capsaicin... Like injecting it intravenously? For what? And what happened?
I'm interested in its effect on systemic pain nerve degeneration to become a pain-free-forever cyborg, but I also heard it can give you a sense of "high". So yeah, for recreational or whatever other purposes, I'd like to hear your adventures with Capsaicin! :)
Some stuff I think I know about Capsaicin:
- desensitize TRPV1 nerves by destroying them
- better to inject intrathetically to minimize systemic side-effects while killing main spinal pain nerves
- systemic temporary side effects include bradycardia, apnea, body temp decrease
Since I can't inject in my own spine, the most practical way seems to be into a vein.
My hypothesis is that if I inject very little each time, it will affect the heart and respiratory functions minimally, and some Capsaicin will end up in the CSF, killing a few pain nerves there, and if I repeat this many times, I can eventually get rid of most pain nerves.
I'm interested in its effect on systemic pain nerve degeneration to become a pain-free-forever cyborg, but I also heard it can give you a sense of "high". So yeah, for recreational or whatever other purposes, I'd like to hear your adventures with Capsaicin! :)
Some stuff I think I know about Capsaicin:
- desensitize TRPV1 nerves by destroying them
- better to inject intrathetically to minimize systemic side-effects while killing main spinal pain nerves
- systemic temporary side effects include bradycardia, apnea, body temp decrease
Since I can't inject in my own spine, the most practical way seems to be into a vein.
My hypothesis is that if I inject very little each time, it will affect the heart and respiratory functions minimally, and some Capsaicin will end up in the CSF, killing a few pain nerves there, and if I repeat this many times, I can eventually get rid of most pain nerves.
Tagged:
Comments
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/18/21/8947.full
It's local not systemic but still resulted in permanent changes. After reinnervation, sensation was something like 75% of what it had been previously.
This one is IV administered:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3769402
Basically, it resulted in coughing. I only read the synopsis but it appears that vital were unaltered at the dose used.
You talked about intrathecal administration. Where did you get this from? A couple things to consider.. if injected IV can it cross the BBB to have a central effect? If so, what concentrations are needed for this to have substantial effect and will this induce to great a peripheral effect? Also, the receptors, TRPV1, are associated with a lot of different functions other then pain mediation. TRPV1 is found in high concentrations in the hippocampus and has a role in memory. If I were you, I'd stick to local administration at the sites you want numbed. Even if you succeed on a systemic level.. I think you'd have a number of unintended effects.
Think of that weird rush you get when you eat hot food. Hot, sweaty, but also good, right? TRPV1 receptors are also involved in the endocannibinoid system. So you'll certainly change how the body responds to pain, but you're also playing with apetite, mood, and memory. Be careful.
So you could apply a topical capsaicin to a region of your body every 6 hours or so for like a week. After this, you should experience the lack of pain you're seeking. The nice part about doing it this way is that the nerves will regenerate after you stop applying the capsaicin. It may take a while and there is some concern about a decrease in the sensitivity... but this is totally doable.
Let me know if you're serious. I'd like to see your write up and I'll help with design etc. if you'd like.
This is the one about intrathecal Resiniferatoxin (sorry, not Capsaicin, but similar) for bone cancer pain in dogs:
http://pdfs.journals.lww.com/pain/2015/06000/Intrathecal_resiniferatoxin_in_a_dog_model__.8.pdf
They are now doing the same experiment for humans in Phase 1 clinical trial.
Thanks for mentioning TRPV1 in the brain... Very Good point, I don't want to be losing memories etc.! I have to look into this further. And no wonder in that dog experiment, they had to lift the dog's head at 30 degree angle or something while administering intrathecal RTX... I guess they didn't want it to f-up the brain...
An even better approach I read somewhere is to inject it in each dorsal root ganglion. Even less systemic side effects than intrathecal.
But that's too bad if I can't do intravenous because that means I would need someone to do spinal injections... I would probably need to find a corrupt medical professional who would agree to do such a thing :<
Does anyone know if there is a vehicle-type technology that could carry Capsaicin to the spine even after being injected intravenously? I know they do this in gene therapy, where they put a miRNA in a viral vector and programme it to go to a specific dorsal root ganglion if injected in the corresponding peripheral area. Can something like that be done with Capsaicin so I could do this all by myself?
@arkcon10
I'm finding mixed reports on Capsaicin causing acute pain or not when administered intravenously... For all other routes (intradermal etc.) it seems to definitely need anesthesia beforehand
Do you know where I could get human-grade Capsaicin either in a liquid / cream / patch etc. form?
the strongest version available for human use as of now is the Qutenza Patch (8% capsaicin, Rx.)
I can't really use that for my project because they are expensive and you have to have a doctor apply it on you at the hospital anyways.
If I buy OTC capsaicin (which is too weak), is there a way I could purify(?) and turn it into something stronger at home? Or even using... hot chili peppers?
Or is it simply better to use lab-grade capsaicin bought from Sigma? They only have stuff made for lab animals I guess, so I'm not very enthusiastic to use it on myself... But if you guys think it would be fine on humans, because, well, Sigma only sells highest quality stuff or whatever, then I might give it a try. I would need Lidocaine or similar, too, not sure if that's sold OTC, to numb the area first...
Will be watching the thread.
There was a biotech company developing injectable capsaicin for humans a few years ago, but they went bankrupt :(