A better RFID implant



  • Huge tag, huge range. the things 86mm x 54mm
  • edited April 2016
    Update time. Sorry for just letting this thread die, but I haven't forgotten about it.

    I got some of the tags I mentioned in earlier in the thread, and tried coating them in silicone. I had several tries at it, but ran into some problems. Firstly I killed some of the tags, not sure if this was because of mishandling them, or if the silicone leached into the circuit while it was curing.

    The second and more major problem was that the silicone didn't bind very well to the existing coating of the tag, it preferred to run off before it was fully cured. This meant there would be patches without silicone, making it unsuitable for implanting.

    So I thought about other options and talked to some of the tag manufacturers I know.
    I got them to do a small batch of ntag216s (the same chip that is in NFC implants) and inlay them in PTFE, a biocompatible type of plastic.
    While PTFE is considered safe to implant, I can't vouch for the processing standard used when coating these tags... so anyone who wants to take the risk that the coating could fail, PM my your address and I'll send you a tag for free.

    These tags have far better read range, 1-2 inches compared with the few millimeters of the glass tags.

    Sorry for the crappy image, it's the one the manufacturer sent me, I'm still waiting for them to arrive in the post, should be within a week. 

    edit: forgot to mention the size of this tag, it's 20x10x0.2mm, so plenty small enough to implant.
  • I'm new to the site but I would be willing to guinea pig one of these tags. 
  • I honestly can't thank you enough for doing this. I'll PM you my address in the convo we had.
  • edited April 2016
    I'd like people's opinion on one aspect of these. As you can see in the picture, there is a gap in the center of the antenna coil. This is simply a thin sheet of PTFE, which doesn't serve any purpose, if we punched out this area, it would allow the skin and tissue to reconnect while healing through the hole in the implant, this would help to stop it from migrating after implantation, and more importantly it would deduce the area of skin with reduced blood flow, likely making the implant healthier and less likely to reject.

    But I'm not a doctor, and I'm not sure if my thinking about this is correct or not. What do others think? am I right? should we be removing this area before implanting?
  • Pinging @Benbeezy to make sure he didn't have any problems with his donut magnet experiment.
  • Picture your rectangular strip of plastic, and its hole. Now picture the flesh potentially grown through the hole. Give your imaginary rectangle a decent impulse from one side.

    All I can picture is it tearing the flesh like a plastic knife, with corresponding bruising and discomfort.
  • ElectricFeel that would be pretty nasty, but I don't see how it's any different from the implant without the hole. If you could impart enough force to the strip of plastic, it could slice through tissue. but I don't think this is a concern, since in order to impart enough force to such a low profile implant, you'd probably just be ripping the skin off your hand whether or not there was an implant.
  • hey hey, I have not had any issue with my magnets, they are both in a perfect. one I think I might take out (did have a hole in the middle and by my pinky got close to the surface but hasnt moved in a long time) but the one closer to my arm is awesome, the hole in the middle was awesome and help everything in place, the coating is holding up and I have no signs of metal issues, or infection (I made sure I did NOT clean the magnets before putting them under the coating) I would say its a pretty awesome success and I would think its pretty safe for people to use, it has an FDA IV rating and if you test to make sure your coating does not have holes you will be fine for any project. I am going to be talking about it a bit more at grindfest in my "grinding on a budget" talk
  • If it's a temporary implant, removing sounds extremely painful and much more difficult in comparison to one with no hole. >~<

    I wouldn't be afraid to see the possibility of perforated implants, the anchoring points adding more locality and better blood flow. ^^ However, I don't think this would smoothly intermesh with temporary.
  • Good point, it would make removing the implant harder. Best not to do it for these trial implants, but if they work well it might be a good idea for people who want them long term.
  • So update on the holes. I just took one out that has a 2mm hole and we had to cut everything that was grown threw the hole. it was indeed healthy and happy tissue. So holes do work, at least in my body. 
  • Just wondering, why whoud they not work?
  • Benbeezy  That's good to hear. We won't have holes in the first tests in case we need to remove them, but if the tests go ok, I think later versions of this implant should have a hole through the middle.
  • any word when you're getting the chips in and sent out @alexsmith
  • edited April 2016
    The implants are currently in Sydney, I'm in Melbourne. I hope they reach me sometime in the next day or two.

    Edit: just checked again, says they are delivered, but I have to go to the post office to sign for them, and it's after hours now :(, but I'll go first thing before work tomorrow morning. expect better pics in about 15 hours :).

  • edited April 2016
  • Can't wait to get my hands on these things!
  • These look fancy. ^^

  • sweet, cant wait!
  • I'm about ready to ship these to the people who PM'd before. you know who you are.

    Since this is a free trial/test, I'm planning to just then these standard mail, since fast post costs quite a bit from Australia. But I know some of you are pretty excited/impatient, so I you want to pay a little bit to have your implant sent faster, let me know in the next day or two.

  • This almost looks like something I would adhere to the out side of me rather then the inside. Let us know how the implanting goes.
  • Looks awesome! This kinda reminds me of Project Underskin. Sound familiar anyone?
  • All items have been sent. Please keep us updated with how the implants and healing goes.
  • @Benbeezy  look into some of the work that they have been doing with glucose monitor implants. Lot's of work being dong on optimal hole amount and placement, plus a bunch of background work so maybe you don't need to to self test so much.

  • Would you happen to have tracking numbers for those that wanted the chips?
  • You should aim to implant these tags in the subdermis. If you implant it deeper you have a chance that A) if the tag migrates between 2 layers of fascia and B) the tag causes adhesions between two layers of fascia which ate supposed to be mobile and cause chronic pain.

    Also you uploaded a photo of the tag on the back of one of your fingers - I assume you are considering implanting it there? Avoid that if you can. In this position there would be two small digital nerves either side of it (as well as blood vessels) which may be irritated by the thin plastic edges. Back of the hand is much safer as the nerves and vasculature here are either much more robust or buried deep in tissue
  • Pierce no, tracking costs extra, so I just sent them standard post.

    strangely_brown fair points, for now lets only worry about implanting them in the back on the hand, if the testing works out ok we can think about other locations.
  • anyone get theirs yet?
  • Hi everyone... been a while since I've checked out the boards. Great minds think alike I suppose; https://dangerousthings.com/shop/flexnt/
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