Project - M31 Rejection Countermeasures

edited May 2015 in Magnets
Well, I'm seriously considering finally getting around to doing this project. I'm not sure whether or not SFM has the capabilities to do the analysis for this, not have I developed a proper protocol, but I think that it might be fruitful to collect samples of the microbes contaminating rejected magnet pockets, and seeing what sort of countermeasures we can devise. Perhaps by swabbing the magnet just prior to implantation, swabbing the implant site(or some comparable alternative), and periodically (not sure whether testing every day, every 2 days, or each time bandages are changed and antibiotics are reapplied would be better) swabbing the area around the implant scab/sutures. 
It'd be best if I could find a local facility that would do the analysis for me, so I'll have to do some looking. Assuming I do find one before I get all of the supplies together to do my own implant (unless SFM or some other organization decides to do this analysis), I'll incorporate whatever study we devise here into my aftercare. 


  • First things first. There are 3 main ways microbial samples are collected for medical analysis:  Swabbing, Fluid aspiration(via syringe), and tissue Biopsy.

    Assuming your magnet hasn't rejected, the last 2 are a no-go, since creating openings in the surface of the skin, where infection can enter, is a bad idea. So, swabbing is really the only option. For the purposes of this study, I propose that, prior to the completion of the implant procedure, but after the sterilization of the magnet and creation of the incision, 2 samples are collected, one from the magnet, one from the wound site. Now, here's a question for @cassox or someone else with more experience in the medical field. Can sterile swabs leave material behind in the wound that could cause complications?

    Now, after the implant has been completed, I propose that each time the bandages over the wound site are changed, prior to reapplication of Triple Antibiotic ointment/cleansing, another sample is taken. This way, we get a general idea of what, if anything has grown in the time we've kept the implant covered, in addition to a basic rundown on the potential trouble makers that can infect an implant site if the wound were to be reopened, or bacteria were to infiltrate in another manner.

    In the event of a rejection/infection, whatever fluid/pus seeps or is drained from the site should also be sampled. If the site is being drained, the surface and lancet should both be thoroughly sterilized, so that the bacterial contents of the fluid/pus aren't contaminated by the bacterial flora on the surface of the skin. If it's seeping, we'll just have to take into account the possibility that there may be some extra species of bacteria that interfere with the analysis. 

    Ultimately, if a rejection is total, prior to the sterilization of the wound and magnet, final samples should be taken for analysis, so we can begin to assemble a full image of what a "rejection" consists of. And if we're lucky, we can incorporate a time-released compound that combats the growth of those particular micro-organisms.
  • I promise to get back to this thread. Quick note though, Out of the last 6 implants I've done, 5/6 subjects took 900mg of Clindamycin immediately prior to implantation. Only that 1/6 who did not rejected. As far as I know all of these people performed great aftercare.

  • I'll go ahead and assume that sterilized swabs probably are designed the same way. 

    @Cassox What's the best way to go about getting Clindamycin? It's a perscription drug, I believe, but I'm not certain whether or not it can be obtained "legally" without a legitimate condition. And I doubt that my physician would be kind enough to give me a perscription for the purposes of implanting. 
  • Fish drugs. Specifically, Fish Cin.
    Not for use by humans, because people are dumb and may just take it every time they get the sniffles, and also cause how would you justify the pricing and restrictions if everyone knew how easy it was to get.

    But really because people are dumb.
  • @Cassox - Is the diarrhea more common with larger doses such as that or is repeated use more often the cause? Have you had any more luck since then?
  • edited June 2015
    Hi guys,I was just looking through the forum because I was bored and found this thread. If you can tell me what the exact problem is I might be able to help you. 
    What I gathered from your conversation is that you have somekind of problems with your implants. How does this manifest?

    I am a resident in internal medicine.

    P.s.: Are you autoclaving or sterlizing your implants and manage a strict sterlie handling before/whlie putting them in?

  • Hadn't seen the @s in this thread before it got bumped to the top despite a promise to return to it. . In terms of Clindamycin and diarhea, the big issue is an organism called Clostridium Dificile.. as in difficult to treat. It's an interesting organism really. In the hospital you have to wash your hands with soap and water when this organism is identified as it's spores aren't sensitive to alcohol based cleansers. Anyways... C. Diff is usually held in check through competition with other organism. When you wipe everything else out it can cause C. diff to proliferate unchecked and cause unremitting diarhea. Bad stuff. In most healthy adults, a 900mg one time oral dose of clindamycin is unlikely to cause this to happen. Even if you get a bit of diarhea, usually it passes after a day or two. If it doesn't then you end up having to be on a different antibiotic altogether. In fact, some strain (this is rare) are so difficult to treat that they instead do a "fecal transplant." Basically, they take the shit from someone you know, liquify it, and give you an enema with it. This fills your lower GI with other bacteria which compete with the C. Diff. It's like pro-biotics via the bum.

    @SA_251 One of the big issues from the M31s is actually because of autoclaving. These are not designed to be autoclaved. For one, it significantly harms the magnetic field... but more importantly the underlying metals expand and contract at a different rate than the titanium nitride outer coating. This causes the cracks in the surface coating and destroys the biocompatibility. Despite warnings all over the M31s documentation, body mod artists keep running them through autoclaves and then implanting them. It's not good.

    Second issue is that I hadn't figured out a method of testing the coating that could be applied to every single magnet, with really high reliability, to test for manufacturing defects. Lots of testing was done, but the high reliability tests inevitably destroy the magnet. I had delegated this and never really got the results I wanted. I've since worked with Amal @ DT and some biomed folks I know and we have some new testing methods we are using. Now, keep in mind.. I've only ever seen one magnet that I am sure was a result of an actual manufacturing defect. It was in a magnet I pulled out of Helyx. There are a few other reports that I find possible or likely but I haven't gotten the actual magnets and dont know anything about how they were implanted.

    In terms of technique... this is my big whining point. A lot of people go to body mod artists. Although I known some who were definitely awesome.. I unfortunately also know many really really fail in terms of aseptic technique etc. I'm doing (the third) a rewrite of my blog on proper implantation technique. It started tiny but it's gotten large as I keep assessing issues that are arising. Believe it or not, I think the basics are what need the most attention like proper hand washing.

    Other stuff: M31s aren't currently being shipped sterile but I believe that's going to be changed soon. Also, there are chemical sterilants that I'll be testing in like a couple months. Um.. SA_251... want to collab on the implant guide?
  • I don't have any medical training as of now, but if there's anything I can do to help with that particular collab, let me know. I'm also writing a how-to guide, based on whatever material already exists for one of my college classes, and I'd be interested in seeing if I missed anything.
  • Ya. I think there's a few versions of the stuff. One contains ortho-Phthalaldehyde rather than glutaraldehyde. I haven't tested it yet with Titanium Nitride. Glutaraldehyde is great, but be careful with the OPA because some high levels disinfectants (example bleach or Hydrogen Perox) strip TiN right off the M31.

    Let me know how it goes either way. I'm glad that autoclaving worked for you. How's the sensitivity?

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