RFID cloning to implanted tags



  • @collirob5 I have a proxmark3, which I have used a number of times to clone these chips, but I understand it is too expensive for most people. I don't have the reader you linked, someone else said they were going to try it... but I haven't heard from them. Also, I haven't used the DT chips, so while they should be the same, I can't say for sure if they work with the same cloning tools.

  • Ages ago I said I was going to test the RFIDler, sorry it took me so long. I've tried cloning a few cards to my implant, and it works as advertised. I did have some issues, which I will write up in full when I have more time, but the sort version is, the RFIDler is a cheaper option than the proxmark3 for cloning cards to these implants.
  • That helps me a lot lol I was planning to build something. Thank you for the update on the rfidler.
  • Where did you find the rfidler @alexsmith. I was looking for it on the internet but all I found was a kickstarter.
  • edited August 2015
    From what I've heard the manufacturers abandoned the project.
    However, it appears they still sell it on their website.
  • I didn't hear anything about them abandoning it... I really hope not. They were still making GitHub commits last month...

    It is listed as sold out here:
  • Why not just ask him, he's a Defcon goon. https://twitter.com/rfidiot
    Find some staff and ask for Adam Laurie.
  • Oh, lol. I didn't know he was a goon. Yeah, I'll ask him and report back.
  • Last time i've checked everything seemed dead as a dodo.
    See: http://rfidler.org/index.php?p=/discussion/13/general-release-time-scales

    However, looking through the forums again now; everything seems to be just fine again.
    So hey, that's good news.
  • Lol now I'm just confused which is easily done. I'll see if I can track one down then thanks for the links to their pages though.

    @alexsmith you were planning on selling one I believe in the cyberise.me web page right? Not specifically the rfidler though.
  • I've just stumbled across this post, and am pretty interested. My work's access system uses HID cards. As with others, my only issue is with the uncertainty over cloning devices. Did anyone ever find a cheap device to clone HID chips to T5577? It seems like nobody got anywhere with the cheap Chinese ones on eBay...
  • This does seem to be a reoccurring question/issue. I didn't really bother with cheap cloners because most only do one type of card, .e.g. only HID or only EM4X, and the more expensive cloners will do all card types.

    but given it seems like an issue for a lot of people, do you want me to find some that work, and sell them with the chips?
  • I would like that. I have a rough idea what I'm looking for but I'd prefer some one with more knowledge to say it works. Also just put the chip in!
  • Ok, I've ordered the cheapest chinese cloner I could find that claims it supports HID cards, when it arrives I'll test it and see if it really does, and report back.
  • Cool I wish I had your ability to find these things like you lol
  • heh, speaking Mandarin is helpful :p
  • Ha Well I can speak Norwegian but I don't think they have the same supplies.
  • Hey guys, I have an xEM chip in my hand and my proxmark won't see it as anything else but an em chip. I got the tag from dangerous things a few weeks ago, but the proxmark took longer to arrive. Does anyone have any tips to help, like how to check for a lock bit or any other obstacles please?. I can write to a physical t5577 card no problems, from the indala card I use, so I've proven I can use the proxmark. Thanks
  • edited September 2015
    A quick update, I got the chinese cloner a few days ago and today had time to test it.

    The news is mainly good. The cloner works for HID cards to implants, as advertised. In a nice surprise, it also clone EM41X cards! this is pretty good because that's 2/3 of the types of cards you may want to clone, indala being the only card type it doesn't support.

    The bad news is that it sets a password on the implant chip, meaning that you can only use the same cloner (not the exact same device, but the same model) to write to the implant in future. This sucks, although it's not that bad, because aside from indala cards, you can just keep using the same cloner. But there is a work around, you can use the proxmark3 to reset the password. but you need to know the old password, but I'm pretty sure I can get it.

    Over all I'm pretty happy with it, I intend to stock them on my site, and I'll look at getting the password they set, so that people can reset their implants with a proxmark3 if they need to.

    I'll probably price them at around $55 each, a little bit more than I'm getting them for, but I feel it's fair that I make a few dollars per unit to cover my time and investment. You can probably find cheaper cloners on ebay etc, but you know this one will work because I've tested it, and all the really cheap ones don't support HID, so are not as useful.
  • Woofy Sorry, I've never tried one of DT's xEM chips, so I can't really help you there, you may want to talk to Amal.
  • @AlexSmith Im glad you finally found a cheap cloner that works! Ill keep an eye on your website and buy the tag and cloner as soon as they are available. Any idea how long it will take for you to have them in stock?
  • edited September 2015
    louisville13  The chips are available now, but makes sense to wait until you can order the cloner at the same time to save on shipping. It will probably be 4-6 weeks until I have the cloners in stock.
  • @AlexSmith Ok thanks! How difficult is it to clone the tags using the cloner that you will sell? Is it as simple as pushing a button to scan the tag and then pushing a button to write the tag?
  • louisville13 Yes, that is a major benefit of these cloners, just point and click the card, then point and click the implant. due to the short read range on implanted chips, sometimes I had to write it 3-4 times before the chip was cloned, but still far simpler then devices like the proxmark3.
  • All ATA5577 chips are the same, right? Like, if I already have an xEM in my hand this one won't change anything if I were to swap them out? I admit, the massively more compact implant size kinda makes me want to upgrade...
  • Great news about the Chinese cloners! Think I'll invest in one and a tag when available.
  • zombiegristle yeah, as long as the xEM is writable (i.e. not password protected), it shouldn't make any difference.
  • I'm in. I'll keep an eye out. Is there a way to unlock it using the same cloner? Like a wipe?
  • Meanderpaul no, you can keep cloning cards to it with the same reader, but to reset the password you need a proxmark3 or similar.

    However, the only situation where you need to reset the password is if you wanted to clone an indala card.
  • Ok that seems pretty straight forward I was thinking about if you for some reason needed to replace a broken scanner if it would be locked out or accepted by the same brand.
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