Electro magnetic pulses - wireless magnet sensing

edited February 2015 in Magnets
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but looking over the bottlenose projects and applications, it seems to me that the problem with them is that they need to be on your finger. I don't hate gloves, but I hate bulky hardware that goes on my hands. The beauty of magnets is that even when the bottlenose is on your hand, it's not directly touching your magnet. What it's really doing is sending a short distance wireless communication to your nerves, with the magnet acting as a receiver. So, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it possible to create a slightly larger electrical field (or pulse) similar to an EMP, that is too small to disrupt electronics, but able to be detected by your finger magnet? I'd personally love a little hardware in my phone that buzzes my hand when I get a text. Has anybody here experimented with isolated signals or electrical pulses that aren't on your hand, directly?


  • I think this is part of the thought process behind the invisible headphones, where a copper wire loop around the neck sends signals to a magnet in the tragus. 

    I had a cheep kit from ebay I tried wrapping around my hand to send signal to the magnets on the sides of my hands, but got nothing. I'm pretty sure the unit itself is broken, however. I am pretty much garbage when it comes to soldering, and whoever assembled it did a worse job than even I could manage :) 

    I was actually hoping to rig up something using a bit of copper wired into a bluetooth receiver of sorts. Other things in life have been getting in my way, however. It's worth researching ways to minimize that bulk, though! And finding new ways to get signal between the two points. Maybe if you had a wrist-based implant and worked with the wire formed into a bracelet. 

    Sadly there's still a huge problem when it comes to power consumption from what I remember. Big batteries providing short lifespan. If it only has to power the occasional slight signal as opposed to a constant signal, that could make a huge difference. 
  • We actually prototyped a really light weight glove, more like a rubber glove than a klonk of hardware and we handed it off to Tim from Grindhouse the other day. We're hoping the collaboration is going to bring a high powered lightweight device for y'all to play with.
  • I think the concept of the invisible headphones could work really well. I wonder if the copper coil could be made into more of a short antennae instead of a coil wrapped around the actual magnet. I would like to see it be more of an omnidirectional signal. And, as you said, the problem is the battery. If it was a wrist controlled coil, the battery would likely need to be self contained. But, if we could work out an antennae, the battery could be contained within the device itself, whether it be a cell phone or what have you.

    Glims, I didn't mean to insult your projects in any way by posting this. I look forward to seeing how that glove works out. When do you think we could see a demonstration (or if there is one, please point me to it)?
  • No worries :) keep the ideas flowin'!

    And we were just riffing on a Grindhouse thing. It's all collaboration, man.

    I like this pulse/antenna concept. I don't have enough ee know-how to say, but is it possible? EMP pulse devices are usually pretty big as far as I know from my tenure on sitting on the couch and watching spy movies.
  • Maybe having the magnet implanted close to your pocket where you keep your phone would work, then you could modify your phone to be able to have an electro-magnet in it.
  • SFM, DT, GH, and BSP (Bearded Space Pirate Inc.) were yacking the other day about the importance of updates, accessabilty of data etc. I was considering starting work on something like a Bottlenose. Not because I thought I could do better but just because I haven't seen much going on with it. Tim showed off his latest model to me and it totally kicks ass. Theres been alot going on but it's hard to focus on the work and give updates on it at the same time really. The short of it is there's a lot of really cool shit coming very soon from a number of different people that I'm not at the liberty to disclose. Ha.
  • Glims, my limited understanding of EMPs is that they're basically just a coil of powered wire that shoot out lots of electrons. If the magnet is close enough to this coil (preferably inside of it), it will vibrate at the frequency of the electrons being released. This is how radios work. By varying how often the electrons come out of the coil, you can transmit different sounds. But, lucky us, we don't care what sound it makes. All we need is for the magnet to vibrate. So, I would think that the only question here is whether we can generate an EMF big enough, which (again in my minimal experience) is defined by how many wraps are in the coil. I'm planning on building something to test this in the coming months because I don't have a magnet implant yet. But I'll keep researching and such. I've got an ME and EE friend who'll help me once I get the implant.
  • Keep us posted! I'm an EE student, and don't have a lot of experience yet, but I will be testing different coil configurations in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, my schedule is really tight 'cause I'm working full time and taking classes...
  • Well saying emp has connotations. What your describing is simply an electro magnet. Emp is usually refering to very large pulse from a device which is destroyed in the process. Military tech is shielded due to emp from nuclear weapons. There are nonnuclear methods where a field is composed using conventional explosives but I'm not sure that your looking for this.
  • I'm pretty sure you guys are just looking for electromagnets. Magnet wire is cheap. I've made coils even recently. Someone avatar is a coil if I remember right. Look at the grind house kit coming out. It use something else that it's world's better.
  • But are electromagnets able to create EMFs at a distance of several feet? The question here is the range.
  • edited January 2015
    @FrankMatheson yes, with a enough power and a proper design. Nothing you are going to hand design is going to do that. One of my guys is working on a TMS device which would kick a massively powerful field. That is going a few inches into the skull. To do that requires 2000V and a special part the size of a snickers bar.

    Can it be done? Yep

    Can it be done practically....not unless you know something we don't.

    Also radios don't shoot out electrons. Electrons moving through the antenna produce radio waves. in turn the receiving antenna is manipulated by the radio wave causing electrons to move, there by generating a signal.http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/129375/how-does-the-movement-of-electrons-produce-radio-waves

    So far the best way I have found to generate magnetic perturbations is using an inductor(which is a coil only way fucking easier to use)

    if what you are attempting is to package the magnet, with something that can perturb it, and you want to be able to perturb it from a distance, you probably at minimum need a magnet, inductor, transceiver, and processor. this can get very small, but requires a power source. You could theoretically use energy harvesting and supercaps, but we have not had much luck with that. Compared to say taking a reading from a sensor, the power required to move a magnet is massive. 
  • Well, It wouldn't use magnetism to move the magnet, but perhaps it would be possible to use directed ultrasonics tuned to the resonance frequency of the magnet to make it move. I also was doing some reading on the antitheft devices used in stores, and the property which acoustic-magnetic systems operate on seemed like it could be of use in this application.
  • I totally want a TMS system.
  • Like I said, I'm no engineer. What's a TMS system?
  • @FrankMatheson no problem brother, this is how we learn. By asking questions. 
Sign In or Register to comment.