NIR Vision project update!

You heard it hear first people. We did the testing today and @Cassox got readings in the 950nm range. That's well outside of standard human vision :) Fingers crossed that in the next couple weeks we can push it even farther. Just thought y'all would like to know.



  • That's very exciting! Was this the work with vitamin a2?
  • yes it is
  • That's incredible! Congratulations.
  • Can you give us a perspective of the results? Like explain it like i'm 5 haha. Does it alter the vision at all? Does it give better night vision? This is a bit exciting. @glims

  • Well, I'm finally justified in talking about the subjective stuff now. I've had a number of interesting effects going on but seeing as though I haven't previously had the ERG data to back up the changes I seriously feared that they were simply me looking to have an effect similar to what people do when starting nootropics.

    First off... I am not consistently "seeing" at 950nm. As in, while the retina is definitely firing this doesn't mean that I'm seeing the flashing light per se. I did notice the presence of light in the lower right corner of my vision which is consistent with the LED location. Furthermore, when I shifted to "look" at it, I lost it. This may indicate something like peripheral vision forming porphyropsin first which would be consistent with a few previous studies. Even when peripheral, I didn't really "see" it. It was more like when something happen way in your peripheral vision which make you turn and look. That type of effect.

    In terms of "night vision" since Glims has made it down, this has been a running joke. The workshop is a ways away from the old lab space and we have to walk it probably a few times a night. It's been moonless and I've pretty much danced around mocking him while he stumbled on down. Of course, let me remind you this is a subjective experience being described. The fact that I could probably dance around just as easily with my eyes closed having lived here for while takes away any credibility as a serious claim.

    Other things I've noticed and written in my journal started as early as day 4: LCD monitors glow so damn bright now. I work in a hospital setting and when you look down the hallways these damn monitors are just dumping out this peculiar flickering light in a way that appears almost neon. Now, once again this is speculative subjective stuff we're talking about. The color schemes and such from these monitors is really set to blue not red or anything so it doesn't make sense to me. Just reporting what I've noticed.
    The strangest effect I've noticed is that early early in the morning when things are quite, I walk out to some windows and watch the sun rise. On day four, I noticed that the afterimages formed are totally different than what I've seen before. I almost want to say that it's a "new color" but I wouldn't go quite that far yet. It's a greenish color but the only way I can think to describe it is green... the way a blacklight makes a non-reactive item look blue. I don't know if this makes sense but it's difficult to describe. Yes, Glims got a rather strange boisterous call that first morning.

    That's most of it. Oh, one more thing. Ptosis. My eyes have been doing this crazy ptosis dilation/constriction/dilation/constriction. They dilate as much as 4mm and then constrict to pinpoint. Generally this is an effect seen in drug addicts. Haven't been doing nothin illicit. I promise.
  • This is fantastic. I was wondering about the status update of this. Congratulations!!

    You all going to publish findings officially anywhere?
  • That's the plan. We just need to massage that data so people take us all respectable like, y'hear!

    But yeah, thats been the plan the whole time. Of course, we're going to share the protocol and everything as well because that sounds like the best way to do things/
  • Without the special formula I assume this is a fairly difficult diet to sort out? or is this eventually going to be something we'll be able to try out?
  • Congrats on your success so far. Looking forward to seeing how far this goes.
  • Once we are all done with the study and have nailed down the protocol and have it somewhere where some jerk in academia doesn't just steal the idea and publish it, then we will make it available to everyone and you guys can all give it a try.

    Just to let you know tho, in it's current state, this protocol is proof of concept. It is not an easy state to achieve.
  • The data is up on the website and on our blog at, just in case anyone wants to see the blips.
  • good science. I am watching this one.
  • ^looks cool but the first thing that springs to mind is this. first, they probably administered it through an injection and i can see no way eye drops could get it into your eye where it's needed. and second i doubt it's pure chlorophyll. and if it was it wouldn't be plant chlorophyll. it would more likely be chlorophyll c or something else since it's based of deep see bacteria rather than plants.
  • Ya so i found the original paper and some of my suspicions were correct.,d.aWw

    I was wrong about the chlorophyll though. they use a derivitive of chlorophyll a called chlorin e6. It was injected but not into the eye rather into the blood plasma and was preferentially taken up in the retina. it can cross the blood retina boundary so it could actually work in eye drops possibly. some kid on instructibles claims to have tried it with chlorophyll but what he did was so not sterile it was horrifying. if you want to experiment with this and be safe you could try extracting chlorophyll into a sterile solution or you could sterilize the solution post extraction but i fear that would destroy the chlorophyll. then try different concentrations and use it as eye drops and see what happens. i wouldn't suggest this but it's possible. alternatively you could try the same thing with chlorin e6 if you can get it. its a food additive
  • Hahaha! I was just checking this out yesterday.

    Here's the thing. In 2012, it was patented as eye drops. Getting chlorin e6 is easy and inexpensive. DONT extract from plants without proper tools, that means a soxhlet setup. Seriously. DONT BLEND LEAVES AND PUT THEM IN YOUR EYEBALLS

    The eye drop solution is a simple mixture of insulin, chlorin e6, and  DI water. They added EDTA as a preservative, but that stuff is terrible and you should just keep your bottle in the fridge and use it quickly or mix for use.

    Here is the patent. They explain why it works. If you are going to attempt this, please read both the paper and the entire patent so you know what you are doing.

    I'll be making some for funsies, both eyedrops and the iv method. We're not going to get very serious about this because it's obviously a real thing with papers and patents to back it up. However, this also means that everyone here can give it a shot.

    Anyone who wants to try and has difficulty procuring the chems or would like to have a professional chemist mix their stuff, pm me.
  • there's a system im working on designing. this would be a perfect addition to it. although i'd wanna play with it first, figure out how much you need for it to be effective, time till it starts working and so on

  • doing it with iv it works in about 1 hr and lasts for 3hrs

    i expect eyedrops would be faster due to localization, but last equally long

  • for security and army purposes you don't need the insulin apparently. although i'd like to try both to see if there's a noticeable difference. 
  • and ok 3hrs is pretty good and if u space injections to every 3 hours after injection you could maintain it for a while. 
  • nah, you need that insulin. acts as a buffer.

    also, there is a difference between iv and injection. i would say that an injection in this case would not work the same as a drip.

    this is why drops are the way to go. you can just carry that bottle with you. 5 drops in each eye every 3 hours is nothing...

    there has been some talk that some effects may be permanent but i don't actually see any data on this.

  • could you not use something else that's easier to get as a buffer?
  • That is an interesting question. See, I figure there has to be a reason that they are using insulin+dH2O instead of saline or PBS. more research is needed on this point....
    the amount needed is really low, but yeah, i just remembered that insulin is not easy to get.
  • again lower in the patent it says they made a preperation without the insulin. 0128 in the patent. says u can use dmso at .5% which is practically nothing and a higher concentration of chlorin. used specifically for military and security. no insulin. 
  • dmso you can buy from unitednuclear at 20 bucks for a 16 ounce bottle of 99.999% dmso
  • no dmso experimentation please. srrsly. do not use dmso for anything touching your body.

  • My thoughts are that the insulin (or dmso) acts as a support mechanism for the chlorin e6 to stop degradation.

    If this is the case, I think that trehalose would be your best bet for something to add instead of insulin. it's biofriendly and works really well as a support buffer. 
  • what's wrong with dmso?
  • that's a whole nother thread. i would be happy to break it all down. however, for the sake of this topic, let's just explore other options

  • edited September 2014
    ok so just looked into trehalose. seems promising. is a fantastic buffer, protein and best of all readily available and cheap. the only expensive part is the chlorin e6 itself which the best i saw was 40 bucks for 100mg. so if we're gonna use trehalose instead what concentration would be required? and is it an issue to be putting a sugar in your eye?
     mind you this makes it seem promising. 
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