Radiation sensory

due to recent events and a natural mistrust when it comes to statements about security... i thought it might be useful to address radiation here.

after a quick search i found this neat thing. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8875 

from the datasheet:

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Gas filling                               Ne +Halogen
Cathode material                     446 Stainless Steel
Maximum length (inch/mm)      1.94/49.2
Effective length (inch/mm)       1.5/38.1
Maximum diameter (inch/mm)  0.59/15.1
Effective diameter (inch/mm)   0.36/9.1
Connector                               Pin
Operating temperature range °C -40 to +75

it's not as small as i would wish it to be  but still within reasonable limits. altho 500 volts are quite a bit, it is possible to deal with it.
power demand should be pretty low so a small li cell and inductive charging should keep it running for a day... or more. i am lacking precise numbers here but i don't see a major current demand other than the one needed to maintain the voltage.

anyone would be interested? ideas? thoughts?

btw..it really would be good if we can make a basic subdermal battery and charger solution since most projects need  a power supply anyway.
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Comments

  • It sounds interesting but I'm not sure I understand why, if you're living in Japan (or next to a nuclear powerplant) then okay, but when would I ever use this?
  • @Fantomex ;
    If there's massive nuclear war or numerous major reactor meltdowns, this could be practical. I doubt that such a thing is imminent, personally, but I can see why it would be useful to have plans for such an implant in case said situations occurred. After all, you're not going to want to have to figure it out once that sort of thing is already happening, and it would likely give you a slight survival advantage.
  • indeed. once you are in such a situation it may help to judge situations precisely which can be the key for survival.
  • Thought about something like that due to a lot of playing fallout new vegas...

    About the voltage:
    You'd have to turn dc to ac and back, so you waste a lot of energy...
    Plus this is very hard to miniaturize.

    On the other side: make the whole thing smaller and the needed voltage will go down anyways. Maybe even a piezo element could do, so when you press on a certain spot on your arm or something a reading results? (piezo elements create the sparks on electric lighters)
  • well minaturizing a inverter is not that hard and the waste of energy is not that dramatic.. but the piezo is an excellent idea indeed. there are those speaker piezos which may work if you can prevent them from breaking (machanically) . there are also real piezzo transformers.

    making it smaller would mean to use a smaller detection tube. any parts you can recommend?
  • I dunno, first thing comming to mind is always glas, as it is not reacting to bodily fluids and does not provoke reactions. But it can break.
    So steel, just like is used for the geiger tube in the link above, would probably be the way to go. I've never seen anything prebuilt (not really searched, though) but if this is supposed to be an implant I see a little problem there:
    with implants the trick is the plasticity of our brain. The implant creates a pattern of activation our brain startes to recognize. who wants to get exposed to radiation often enough for the brain to rewire? Ok, if it is primarily a warning sensor a painlike signal would do and no big patternrecognition needed, but still...
  • firing off some local nerves works fine. its a bit like.. a tingling sensation.

     a lot smaller. a lot less sensitive... but may be just fine.

    including silicone coating (provides both, protection from the 500V and bioproofing) it may be possible to squeeze it into a 6mm diameter and 50mm long package. which would allow easy application using a freaking big needle.

    in a few days i can continue to experiment with piezos and stuff.
  • I've actually been looking for Piezoelectric materials for an unrelated project, do you know any good places to buy them?

    Electroactive Polymers would also be good.
  • i dont have any good sources. only the parts i scavenged from buzzers , lighters and such. but piezos are common technology and you get them in all forms and sizes. 
  • I have an interest in electroactive polymers, but I haven't been able to get my hands on any. One company offers a sample pack, which might be what you're looking for (although more than likely it isn't).


    They didn't reply to my email, either. There are a couple more out there, it might be worth it to ask around.
  • Hmm. There's a mica window in the front of those things that is very delicate, and 90% of what you'd detect would be background radiation anyway. Interesting, though, and you'd gain a deep appreciation for how small a unit a BED is. (",
  • @ThomasEgi:  Not sure if you have seen this patent link or not (open the PDF for illustrations):
    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2010/0217354.html

    I posted it another thread and had mentioned some of the powering methods to you on irc.  I don't know if any of them are feasible or not for this application.

    I like this idea.  Like the magnetic implant, this project could allow you to see into an otherwise invisible world. 
  • edited October 2012
    geiger counter 60 bucks!
    they sell tubes and kits too!
  • If the problems could be worked out, I like this idea. It would be another way to expand the senses to detect what is otherwise invisible to us, much like the way magnets give us the ability to "touch" magnetic fields. Each pulse would be like a little vibration and as they became more frequent, the perceived intensity would go up. I'm guessing that I'd be surprised at the amount of gamma radiation hits my body in a day even at "safe" levels of radioactivity.
  • I'd be happy starting with one of these implantable dosimeters (see herehere and here). Preferably before I head to Chernobyl next year.
  • Any idea how much one of those dosimeters costs?
  • That would be the million dollar question, @TheGreyKnight. As yet I can't find anything online to indicate a cost but given the opportunity I'd LOVE to implant one. This is when it would be handy to have a professional in the American medical field who could contact VeriTeQ on our behalf.
  • The now-bust Sicel Technologies gave these figures back in 2008: "We estimate the cost for the implant kit (containing two devices and insertion tools) to be in the region of $1200 (£610). The reader (including the software) costs $20,000 (£10,118) as a one off capital cost. Additional costs include the procedure to insert the device."
  • rfid readers can be build for less than 20 bucks. implant procedure of such a chip can be easily done at home (given you just want it in the skin and not some tumor-tissue deep down). so costs are not the point. from what i can tell, those implants are only active during readout, so they'd require a reader in order to work at all. so it'd be no different from a regular dosimeter.
  • It's the internal reading that appeals to me, especially as somebody headed to an irradiated zone. I already own a dosimeter and Geiger counter but that's still some faith to place in a handheld machine that won't touch my skin.
  • I could try calling Veriteq to discuss sales options, I bet they would consider selling a small batch of a few hundred units. Would then just come down to a group buy or I would resell them to the community.
  • Sounds like a plan, zombiegristle. If you're happy to call them, that would be fantastic. Will keep my fingers crossed.
  • I'll see about giving them a ring on Monday and will post results. I'll steer away from things like "we wanna hack our bodies! CYBORG4LIEF" and the like, I'll pitch it as a bunch of individuals in disaster relief and environmental work looking to get these on a personal budget out of concerns raised by recent events (re: Japan). Something like that should fly pretty well, methinks.
  • Sounds good. If it helps, I'm a senior journalist on a major daily newspaper who's headed to Chernobyl next October.
  • edited January 2014
    I got sidetracked with holiday "stuff" and forgot all about this, but I will call them on Monday and see what's what. Still very interested in the possibilities here.

    EDIT: I just sent an e-mail to Amal Graafstra, asking if he would have any interest in reselling those implants through Dangerous Things. I think that would be an excellent way to make them more accessible to the community, but I don't know how feasible it is or if he'd even be interested.
  • Great idea regarding Dangerous Things. Will keep my fingers crossed again.
  • edited January 2014
    Calling them seems to go to a cookie-cutter voicemail almost immediately...I'll try again in a little bit.

    EDIT: Yeah, no dice so far. Amal reported similar results the other day, so I'm going to go with vaporware on these guys unless we can get some solid evidence to the contrary.
  • Bugger! Have you tried emailing one of their sales reps? Only other thing I can think of is that I try their media team to get us a definitive contact phone No - let me know if you want me to give that a whirl.
  • Definitely, go for it and post any results.
  • edited January 2014
    Waiting to hear back from VeriTeQ's Alison Tomek ...
    Spoke to American medical implant designer David Prutchi, who writes The World of Implantable Devices blog. He says Sicel Technologies did reach the marketplace with its FDA-approved DVS implant. Unfortunately the company went bust three years ago.
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