Subdermal Armor



  • are we all forgetting the biosafe fabric that was as strong as kevlar? we had a product. Why are we not running with this? It would be perfect for at least cut protection, and with the right design some amount of low level ballistics.
  • edited June 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • I think the way forward is through the new, non toxic shear thickening fluids.
    I'm looking for a tattoo artist to try tattooing a piece of leather or animal skin.
    Then test it for impact stiffening. If testing goes well, maybe a small patch of skin.
    What do you think?
  • Well, I'm familiar with what you're talking about. I even think someone mentioned it in this thread before although I haven't gone back through... I haven't seen it in action though. I mean, I've made the starch semi-liquid that will stop a fast strike but not slow movement. I've read of liquids that semi-harden according to electrical signal. I've never actually seen anyone make even an external prototype. At all, much less one that I think is ready for implantation. Finally, even if someone did make this.. would it really just be a fluid that one could tattoo in? This doesn't seem feasible to me. It's kindof of like the "tattoo wiring" thing. Yes, it seems like a good idea but I haven't actually seen anyone come up with something doable yet. The stuff I know about is silica nano-particles in ethylene glycol. This is not something that could be tattooed in.
  • a shear thickening fluid is actually usually poorly named. Almost all of them are colloidal suspensions on a bunch of particles. The best i've seen are silicone nanoparticles which are far from biocompatible. They can take a hell of a hit though and are already being investigated for body armour. If you tattoo it it won't help you. The particles do not stop the bullet, the fabric they soak into does. And they always soak it into something bullet resistant so it's strong to start with. The particles just lessen how many layers you need and how much force is distributed. 
  • Starting out with "bulletproof" is awfull ambitious. There are motocross jackets with STF inserts to spread impact. How about skin that does the same thing?
  • this mayyy be a dead thread but i thought i might add some ideas into the mix~

    biocompatible titanium foam that when a bone is broken around the implant will grow back and even attach back onto the implant itself making the bone even stronger

    3D printed ribcage 

    the 3d printing one wouldn't exactly be possible with the tools avalible to grinders but it may give some insight on what is possible and what is not 

  • Actually I'm pretty sure there are 3d titanium printing services online. You just make up a cad drawing and get a quote. I'm thinking of simply buying a titanium rod from a company that makes orthopedic implants and implanting it into my forearm. It would be a fun project.
  • Would there be any functional purpose for the rod? Seems interesting.
  • I feel like that was sarcasm....
  • Actually, it's something he's mentioned before. Something to do with reinforcing the blade edge of the arm or ....
  • edited November 2015
    Oh was there a thread on it?
  • Nah, just a thing that was mentioned whenever this kind of stuff came up
  • I believe this video provides a partial solution to your topic. Came across this thread and remembered watching this on youtube a while back.
  • stopping bullets would be almost impossible unless it was transgdermal. a knife though, that would be alot easier. yes, it would cut the skin but it would protect the muscle making recovery alot faster.
  • @toaster we stop bullets all the time externally...we have vests. What are you referring too?
  • Haha I miss read my b
  • i dont think you would want to implant a 1.5" thick metal plate in your chest would you?
  • Ha nope I wouldn't. I miss read the transdermal hence my comment. I also can't edit a post from my phone so I couldn't fix my mistake.
  • ah haha okay
  • Yes, I think that getting knife proof is far more practical than bullet proof. Not just in terms of the how but also the fact that most people, save those from the States, will be more likely to face knives (if weapons at all) than guns.

    That said, I've been scouring around anatomy textbooks and is wondering about the "capillaries delivering blood to skin vertically" thing. Because if that's the case wouldn't any type of pinching the skin (not just the extremely hard one but also lightly pinching ones like pinching the back of the hand) be breaking the said capillaries and cause internal bleeding? Also, wouldn't that also mean that the large subderminal implants like the Ironman lights under the back of the hand or that large iPhone-like body sensor thing cause necrosis of the skin in the center? I think we should revisit that.

    Because even if we are right, revisiting anatomy should be a priority considering what we are doing (which is, quite frankly, laymen surgery).
  • Someone could always opt for smaller pieces of armor in vulnerable places, like protecting the spleen, that were placed overlapping, but in multiple depth layers. Less problem with overall blood flow to the skin, though at reduced protection and possibly more invasive to place.

    On a similar note, I was looking at (medical) implant-related cases in the Figure 1 app. A woman had a pacemaker implanted, then lost 90lbs. The implant was now sticking out so much, you could follow the wires. Any subdermal armor should probably be designed to minimalize movement or prominence due to changes in body fat.
  • To everyone that is so super excited about the ageless thread, please read the entire backlog. Quite a few things being brought up that have already been discussed.
  • I like that name for this thread lol
  • edited May 2016
    This thread is awesome. Was going to ask about carbon fiber because of the results from Long-term effects of carbon fibre on soft tissues in rats, and the info on carbon toxicity in humans, but saw it was already mentioned (fouling issues...).

    Shear-thickening fluid-infused fabric comes to mind when thinking of flexibility issues, but both piece-wise hard plates and fabrics would pretty much either separate things underneath the skin, or have to sacrifice much of the armor function for a mesh-like structure to give space.

    From these realizations, all I'm left with is somehow getting patches of strong & durable, flexible & thin mesh under the skin. Would be cut-proof at best, the way I see it. Which materials are candidates here? Could anything be "grown" in-vivo or sewn instead of placed through surgery?

    Forgive me if I missed something.

    To spice things up a bit, the mesh, which in my uneducated mind should be stiff on impact to not give too much way, could have shear-thickening characteristics or react with electrical signals a bit like Nitinol. ;) Self-healing properties would be great as well.
  • @Chironex Do your nanomachines have sheer-thickening properties when deployed in higher concentrations and pulled into cells? Might be an interesting approach. 
  • I could not go through the full threat but I notice and there is a key aspect on armour that is not take into account and that is Over heating , this is a main issue in all armour not only the one made by humans but also the one animals have. When you move you generate heat that is pushed out in the environment together with swet. If you simply make a harder skin , you will have to change your internal organs to ensure that you can support a higher heat or you will cook inside. And keep or completely change the way your body deals with heat and sweat, and pleasure. If you want some inspiration you can look at Neri Oxman. Website :
  • I somehow doubt that a subdermal armor covering enough body surface for that to be a problem is feasible to begin with.
  • @thegreyknight They aren't really good for that. 
  • What about bulletproof skin? Your skin can with take impact.
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