Tips for installing flexible implant

SrgSrg
edited June 14 in Procedures

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for a few years. Bit of background I have 2 RFID tags in my hands, they were both self-installs (an xNT from Dangerous Things and a Vivokey Spark). Had the xNT for 5 years and the Spark for a 6 months.

I have a Vivokey Flex One sat in my drawer and I'm almost ready to install it, being based in the UK it's nigh on impossible to find someone willing to install. I have a friend who worked in a hospital for a few years who's willing to assist and help with sourcing of materials.

I'm going to be following the 5mm needle procedure, this will be my first install that isn't using an injector assembly so I have a few concerns;

  • How can I be sure to miss any arteries or veins in my forearm?
  • Pain relief will I need any for this? (I have a fairly high pain tolerance and have not used any in the past)
  • Has anyone used dermabond for closing the wound, and would this hold any benefit over using derma strips or butterfly bandages?

Obviously I want to follow this to the book as I don't have a medical background at all, I'm also aware of all the risks involved.

If anyone else has any other tips of recommendations when installing a flex implant themselves that would be helpful.

Comments

  • One super important thing.. never touch the flex with your tools. It's easy to destroy the coating.
  • Contact: Kai from https://cyborg.ksecsolutions.com/ they are in the UK and have partners.
    Last year I got the flexDF and the xBT installed from them. Great work.

    I got my "Vivokey Flex One" installed in Germany. ( I'm from Austria and I must travel to other countrys to get bodymods.

  • @Sandra thanks for that, I'm already aware of KSEC in the UK from the beta forums. Unfortunately it's a bit of a travel for me and I don't drive so I'm going to aim to do the installation myself, mainly for convenience.

  • what about public transport? I used the train to get to Eastbourne. For me it is normal to travel to get bodymods.

  • @Sandra said:
    what about public transport?

    Travelling to Eastbourne will probably take 4h 30m for me and cost well over £100. At that rate, it's going to be better for me to travel to Europe to get it installed which I don't really have the time for at the moment.

    My plan is to get my friend with a medical background to assist while I perform it on myself, shouldn't take more than 15-20 minutes then. All my mods I've installed myself but this is a bit of a level above for me so just wanted to see if anyone had experience to go alongside the research I've already done.

  • I had a flexDF install with the incision method. I suspect the needle method will be less painful, but there are very few public accounts of it so far.

    The separation of the fascia to make a pocket for the implant really sucks. It's made worse by the fact that you need to do it in 3 or 4 spurts to prevent damage and ensure good positioning. It's not like the borosilicate glass tags where you can safely do it in one go. Amal strongly recommend you do all needle based installs with the bevel of the needle facing down towards the skin.

    Even with high pain tolerance, I definitely recommend painkillers of some kind. You really don't want to be twitching and recoiling too bad if you're installing in a tight spot. The topical variants might help a bit, but they won't penetrate deep enough to help with the separation step no matter how long you give them. With these type of install you usually can't tourniquet and ice like you can with a finger magnet.
  • the other KSEC partners in the UK are also far away?

  • @Satur9 said:
    I had a flexDF install with the incision method. I suspect the needle method will be less painful, but there are very few public accounts of it so far.

    The separation of the fascia to make a pocket for the implant really sucks. It's made worse by the fact that you need to do it in 3 or 4 spurts to prevent damage and ensure good positioning. It's not like the borosilicate glass tags where you can safely do it in one go. Amal strongly recommend you do all needle based installs with the bevel of the needle facing down towards the skin.

    Even with high pain tolerance, I definitely recommend painkillers of some kind. You really don't want to be twitching and recoiling too bad if you're installing in a tight spot. The topical variants might help a bit, but they won't penetrate deep enough to help with the separation step no matter how long you give them. With these type of install you usually can't tourniquet and ice like you can with a finger magnet.

    There are also many sources of injection strength concentrations of lidocaine and other variants available online, not to mention thousands of procedures for the chemistry inclined. It´s simply the injection of it that is typically considered a crime, not possession and even distribution in many cases.

    Dermabond will work, but there are more efficient ways to go about it. The reason why butterfly bandages and derma strips are preferred is they do not enter the cut, which allows for optimal healing of the dermal tissue around the implant.

    As for the injection, do you mind clarifying where the implant´s intending location is? There´s a couple things you can do to avoid hitting arteries and veins, the biggest one is doing your research beforehand. However, you can slightly restrict blood flow to the limb to increase pressure within that section of your vascular system which would increase the size of the veins. Mild dehydration is also effective, not unheard of but overkill in my opinion for these purposes. This biggest thing you have to avoid is ligaments, nerves, and connective tissue and those just come down to research and common sense

  • @Sandra said:
    the other KSEC partners in the UK are also far away?

    Unfortunately yeah, they're all mostly the same distance.

    @ThermalWinter said:
    It´s simply the injection of it that is typically considered a crime, not possession and even distribution in many cases.

    In the UK all anesthetics are controlled as it falls under prescription meds, however I still may be able to get some. If I don't succeed I'm going to use the topical variants and just hope for the best.

    @ThermalWinter said:
    As for the injection, do you mind clarifying where the implant´s intending location is? There´s a couple things you can do to avoid hitting arteries and veins, the biggest one is doing your research beforehand.

    It's going in my forearm at the top, I'm planning to use a tourniquet to find a suitable location to install in that area, as well as research.

  • @Srg said:
    In the UK all anesthetics are controlled as it falls under prescription meds, however I still may be able to get some. If I don't succeed I'm going to use the topical variants and just hope for the best.
    It's going in my forearm at the top, I'm planning to use a tourniquet to find a suitable location to install in that area, as well as research.

    I would highly advise against that location because of the high ratio of major blood vessels, muscles, tendons and ligaments. There are far less painful, difficult, and risky places to go just inches away. Is there a particular reason you want this placement?

    In an installation like this I highly suggest you figure out how to acquire subdermal anesthetic, i´ll look through some TEK´s and get back to you.

  • @ThermalWinter said:
    I would highly advise against that location because of the high ratio of major blood vessels, muscles, tendons and ligaments. There are far less painful, difficult, and risky places to go just inches away. Is there a particular reason you want this placement?

    In an installation like this I highly suggest you figure out how to acquire subdermal anesthetic, i´ll look through some TEK´s and get back to you.

    Thanks, that'd be super helpful.
    The reason for that location is because I want to save other locations for other implants in the future. I'll mainly be using the Flex One for 2FA keys so placement isn't a huge deal. Would you say to move it further down the forearm in the middle of the wrist and elbow?

  • @Srg said:

    @ThermalWinter said:
    I would highly advise against that location because of the high ratio of major blood vessels, muscles, tendons and ligaments. There are far less painful, difficult, and risky places to go just inches away. Is there a particular reason you want this placement?

    In an installation like this I highly suggest you figure out how to acquire subdermal anesthetic, i´ll look through some TEK´s and get back to you.

    Thanks, that'd be super helpful.
    The reason for that location is because I want to save other locations for other implants in the future. I'll mainly be using the Flex One for 2FA keys so placement isn't a huge deal. Would you say to move it further down the forearm in the middle of the wrist and elbow?

    You could move it farther down your arm, however you could just move it a couple inches to the left or right so the installation only in contact with skin and bone. Consider the pinky side forearm.

  • @Srg
    I agree with @ThermalWinter. I had my flexDF installed on the lateral face of the forearm ~6cm above the wrist, and it is a tough install spot. There are a bunch of blood vessels and tendons there. Luckily my install went well, but now 7 months on I get uncomfortable friction in certain orientations (like when I'm holding a steering wheel.)

    It is appealing from an accessibility standpoint. Plus, you really need to be able to get a solid read when interacting with the flex One. What does everyone think about the medial face of the forearm, pretty much in the center?
  • @Satur9 said:
    @Srg
    I agree with @ThermalWinter. I had my flexDF installed on the lateral face of the forearm ~6cm above the wrist, and it is a tough install spot. There are a bunch of blood vessels and tendons there. Luckily my install went well, but now 7 months on I get uncomfortable friction in certain orientations (like when I'm holding a steering wheel.)

    It is appealing from an accessibility standpoint. Plus, you really need to be able to get a solid read when interacting with the flex One. What does everyone think about the medial face of the forearm, pretty much in the center?

    I´m not certain what you mean by the medial face, the only resembling thing I can think of is the medial antebrachial cutaneous nerve in the lower forearm so do you mind clarifying so I can be more helpful?

  • > @ThermalWinter said:
    > I´m not certain what you mean by the medial face, the only resembling thing I can think of is the medial antebrachial cutaneous nerve in the lower forearm so do you mind clarifying so I can be more helpful?

    Yeah, I used the wrong terminology there. I mean the center of the underside of your forearm (the side that usually has a lower concentration of hair.)
  • @Satur9 said:
    > @ThermalWinter said:
    > I´m not certain what you mean by the medial face, the only resembling thing I can think of is the medial antebrachial cutaneous nerve in the lower forearm so do you mind clarifying so I can be more helpful?

    Yeah, I used the wrong terminology there. I mean the center of the underside of your forearm (the side that usually has a lower concentration of hair.)

    I´m going to be frank, without having somebody like me there during the procedure I can not in good consciousness suggest implanting in the forearm. As with all procedures, there is a high amount of danger however these locations have far more variables. I could suggest the sides of the forearm, I would use my right side and ¨credit card swipe¨ the reader.

    It´s subjectively more practical, and is far safer in implantation and biological interaction long term. It´s at a higher risk of breaking if you fall, but the event of shattering is far less damaging to vital tissue and removal + installation is far easier.

    Do it somewhat inbetween your superficial flexor muscles (which are also not terribly vital to arm functioning...) and your radius bone. Wherever the tissue is the most shallow relative to the radius is ideal, but variable depending on your biology.

    Hopefully that´s helpful, I´ll pm you with the information on how to do the subdermal anesthetic, and this time i´ll actually look into it :)

  • @ThermalWinter said:
    I´m going to be frank, without having somebody like me there during the procedure I can not in good consciousness suggest implanting in the forearm. As with all procedures, there is a high amount of danger however these locations have far more variables. I could suggest the sides of the forearm, I would use my right side and ¨credit card swipe¨ the reader.

    Sorry for the late reply, been very busy with work recently. This sounds perfect, I'm only ever going to read the device with my phone as it'll be used for 2FA keys, placement doesn't matter too much, as long as it's easily readable via my phone.

    @ThermalWinter said:
    Hopefully that´s helpful, I´ll pm you with the information on how to do the subdermal anesthetic, and this time i´ll actually look into it :)

    Yes please, drop me a message when you know more as this is the main thing holding me back on the procedure currently.

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