Flexible NFC Implantation (with video)



  • I'm not too versed in the implant but why not a spatula that acts like tongs. Pinch it to close release to open. One side (top) has a lip that will hold the tag enclosed but when you release it the lip is gone and you can slide it out.

    Idea two:
    Stick with sandwiched spatula with and opening at the end. Have it so the two spatulas can be locked closed. Then once In place you push a rod that acts like a plunger in a needle to push it out of the spatula and into the space the same way you would an RFID. (This would be for a reusable tool. For a once use just make it a fixed object that has a flat end and plunger.)
  • edited June 2016
    Really digging idea two @Meanderpaul! I'll try to work on something in the next day or two and maybe do some actual printing. Great idea man!

    With idea one, if you had the tong type things the implant still would need to be held in place by something else, and would still require another hand.
  • I kind was figuring that after i typed it which made me think of number two. I would totaly help make up a design in cad or something similar but all i can do in it is make basic shapes lol.
  • Hats off to you for doing the procedure without a local anesthetic. I'm not squeamish at all ,but the bit where you inserted the surgical probe to separate the connective tissue made my skin crawl.
    Remember if you're ever hard pressed to find a local anesthetic you can always numb your hand with ice. I may be installing an NFC/RFID sometime soon and you better believe I'm using a general anesthetic, local anesthetic, and will more then likely numb my hand with ice so long as it doesn't effect my ability to install the device properly.
  • Tried the whole ice thing doesnt really work well. Made eblverything harder to grip and took longer then actually installing it. Just so your aware.
  • The issue is the sliding out part. in the video you can see that he can push the tag in just fine with that rod, but when he pulls the rod back out the tag comes with it. so simply sliding things out from under/over the tag seams like it won't really work out that great, Thats why I think it needs to almost temporarily be held in place externally. Maybe is a very tiny magnet was put into the top of the tag and you could temporarily mount it in place with a external magnet while moving tools around inside. or the missing corner thing so you can try and pinch it into staying still while pulling things out (this way requires 3 hands) the magnet idea could be done by your self. But it would require more engineering on alexs part to make it happen, same with the hook idea. 
  • I honestly didn't watch this one. I don't think I could which is very uncommon for me. :/
  • its not as bad as his LED one, thats for sure. 
  • Oh in that case I think I will watch it. It looks worse then the led.
  • hmm. So what are we thinking, should we try to refine the spatula-probe-helping hand design? Or should I put sometime into prototyping an injector?
  • edited June 2016
    I'm intrigued by your comment, @Benbeezy, that this one was not as bad as the LED one.  Obviously, my point of view is different from that of a viewer, but if it were me watching the two, I can't help but think I'd be more squeamish while watching this one.  It's the scalpel, I guess.  I did use one briefly in the LED video, but I used one extensively here.  For some reason, I'd think watching that scalpel cut would be worse.

    Regarding the whole discussion, I've had time to reflect on the tag getting pulled back out by the probe.  Here's my whole theory on what was going on and possibly a simple work around...

    The inside of the hand where the implant sits is, during the process, slick with blood.  There's limited friction to hold it in place.  The probe, being less slick, creates friction between itself and the implant.  So, it can drag the implant out very easily.

    If I were to do this again, I would do it the same way but with this change...  I would roll the end of the probe in KY jelly.  I wouldn't want a ton of it, but enough to remove some of that friction.  It would make the probe less effective at getting the implant into place, but it would also stop it from dragging the implant back out.  So I'd work the implant into place with the lubricated probe, apply some pressure to the implant with a finger nearest to the knuckles, then carefully slide the probe back out.  KY was originally developed as a surgical lubricant and is safe inside the body (please someone correct me here if I am wrong).  Like I said, I wouldn't want a ton of it to be left in there, but a little bit left behind would be broken down harmlessly by the body as the implant heals.  Possible alternatives to KY would be Surgilube or Dynalube.
  • Yup made it about 30sec into it haha. I'll take your word on it Ben. And aviin damn bro.
  • edited June 2016
    That was rough to watch. I think I'll be finding someone to do my first implant, don't think I'm steady enough to do my own.
  • This was fun to watch. Honestly I'd vy for anesthetics simply out of comfort... That's just me. ^_^ Great work as always, @aviin. :D

    I have an idea, simply to create a rectangular ruler-like instrument, very thin, flat, and ideally completely sturdy. Insert this into the implant pocket to insure depth is appropriate (This looked like a part in my eyes), and then use this as a ramp to slide the implant in on, perhaps with a probe or second thinner plate by the implants top?

    Once you get the tag slid inside the pocket, providing the tool wasn't sticking to the implant, it could simply be slid back out. :v

    Adding a little notch and turning it into a spatula the tag can rest on and be held in place by while gently being pushed in sounds possible too. :o

    Lubrication sounds like it would be super useful here. Is this worth exploring, or snags? ^^
  • So.....  I've had a complication with this implant.

    On the morning of the 11th, I noticed that the tissue that covers the implant was looking a little red and was just a tiny bit itchy.  I've been using band-aids on and off on it all this time and I assumed it was related to the adhesive (I still cover it while I sleep).  I left it uncovered all day and the redness seemed to diminish.

    That night, I used tape and gauze instead of a band-aid so I could get the tape (and thus the adhesive) on a different area of tissue so as not to exacerbate the problem from the night before.

    On the morning of the 12th, though, I awoke to the same thing with some redness over the implant site (not the incision; the tissue that lies atop the implant), a bit of warmth in the location, and some itchiness.  I left it uncovered again all day and it seemed to get better.  That night, I decided to leave it uncovered since the incision is (was... more on that in a second) very nearly healed.

    This morning, though, I was seeing the same thing again along with some fluid build-up.  The fluid seemed confined to the area directly over the implant, literally following the borders of it.  Squishing it around a bit, it seemed like it was somehow trapped over the implant.  I do not understand how that could be, but, well, that's the way it was.

    My first thought was that I must have in infection despite being very careful in how I cared for it.  I decided to get a syringe and attempt to draw some of that fluid out so I could have a look at it and better assess what I was dealing with.

    Very carefully, I inserted the syringe into the side of the area that seemed to contain fluid making sure to not hit the implant.  I should have taken a picture but I didn't think about it at the time.  The fluid is not pus.  It is a yellow-tinted but very clear fluid with perhaps just a tinge of orange to it.  It looked like the fluid that's inside a healthy blister (if there is such a thing as a "healthy" blister).  Essentially, I think it was blood plasma.  I drew out as much of it as I could, but there was still a fair bit left.  Perhaps it was ill-conceived, but I decided to use a scalpel to cut a small opening into the implant pocket (a VERY small opening) and drain the rest out.  I then cleaned the site thoroughly, applied some triple antibiotic ointment to the cut, and bandaged it.  After removing the fluid, the entire area around the implant had a pretty significant burning sensation that reduced and disappeared over the course of an hour or so.

    So my question is this:  What the hell is going on?  I'm really hoping @Cassox wanders by and replies, but any input or advice from anyone would be welcome.

  • If it does what a normal blister does, the skin on top will die and peel away. Essentially, it'll reject. For whatever reason, that area's pretty unhappy. Since it's not infected, and there's no lymph, I'd guess it's probably mechanical irritation. I've had similar things happen with blisters. And when I've played the guitar too much. You better keep that open spot and your needle-puncture site antibiotic'ed up, or it might get infected, and then it'll be a real party.
  • Take the following with a whole shaker of salt because I'm definitely not an expert.

    It's possible that it's rejecting not so much because of the implant as it is a trifecta of conditions. The tag is much larger than the glass tags, so there's more surface area for things to rub around on. Since it's implanted on the back of the hand, all those bones and connective tissue are moving around like crazy, even with minimal use. Plus the difficulty with connective tissue could have exacerbated trauma.

    Like I said, not an expert. Obviously putting something that size under the skin isn't inherently the problem or else silicone subdermal implants wouldn't be possible, not to mention breast implants with that kind of implant surface area. 

    People who've had liposuction usually have to wear a compression garment or girdle for 2 days to 2 weeks, depending on how much work they've had done. Partially for drainage of serous fluids and whatever else is working it's way out, partially to promote swift healing, partially for aesthetics, and of course so stuff doesn't move around. 

    So, maybe with this implant, something like wearing a wrist splint, compression gloves, or keeping it wrapped in an Ace bandage for a few days might be needed. 
  • Pictures would definitely help. Of course my go to is ice, ibuprofen and elevation. There are three different possible reasons I think it could be failing. It could be infected, the coating on the implant could have failed or the procedure was overly traumatic. Seeing as though the fluid is clear Im less concerned about infection.

    As katz said about, a pressure bandage can help stop the fluid from returning too. Bring down the inflammation and swelling and then watch to see what the wound does. Pics?
  • I greatly appreciate the replies.

    I'm going to say the cause is the traumatic procedure.  I definitely went overboard on the pocket size because of the difficulties I was having.  That, and I think removing and reapplying band-aids and/or tape was pulling on the skin enough that it would cause separation between the layers to happen all over again.

    I drained it again this morning.  Still the same clear liquid.  No hint of orange now.  Very yellow.  Nothing foul in the consistency or smell.  I'm sure it is not infected.

    Early this afternoon, I cleaned it again, applied some more triple antibiotic, laid a piece of gauze over it, then wrapped the hand with a pressure bandage as suggested.  That suggestion was absolutely brilliant, @katzevonstich!  The fluid has not returned, the irritation is greatly diminished, and I'm feeling very good about the situation.

    I will also apply some ice as you suggested, @Cassox.  I'd already been taking ibuprofen and keeping it elevated as much as was feasible.

    This community is the best.  Great people with great ideas.  I appreciate each and every one of you.

    I'll get some pics up later tonight.
  • Hmmmm if you take it out, please return it to me, rather than trying to re-implant or anything, I'd like to check it under a microscope to see if the coating got damaged while implanting. 
  • Will do, but I think the compression is going to fix this right up.  All the symptoms are disappearing in rapid fashion.
  • @Zerbula What about making it a combination of several ideas? Instead of it being tongs, what about a small, thin rectangular sleeve that you could slide the implant inside of, flat? Have a ruler marking on the top to make sure of proper depth of the pocket. Attached to the sleeve would be a plunger tube and small plunger, that you could press to start pushing the implant into the pocket, while pulling the sleeve out of the pocket. That way the sleeve slides out of the pocket, leaving the implant in the pocket, flat and far enough in to allow for stitching the wound..
  • Could you not roll the flexible nfc chip up, inject it and it unfurl?
  • @PostHumanist, that was actually my original idea, but if you take a look at the video that @aviin posted you will see why that does not work. There is way to much connective tissue so you would't be able to make a pocket for the implant to lay flat in. I am still intrigued regardless. 
  • edited June 2016
    I disagree. A small incision should be made, followed by a probe with a razor edge such as surgical scissors to make a large pocket. Then a needle with a rolled up nfc chip could be implanted. Self surgery isn't for the timid guys.

    Just saying.
  • I'm not sure unfurling would be doable in this case, or at least doable with available needle sizes that I'm aware of. I'm not sure what size are the injectors the RFID tags come in, but I think @AlexSmith 's firefly tattoo injector might be bigger. Even that one isn't big enough for the flexible tag to roll up in. The coating does add a lot of thickness.
  • I may get one just to work out an implant procedure. I don't know the dimensions of it but I imagine it can be done with greater ease than the OP experienced. Lidocaine would have been a good start.
  • Aviin is very adamant about not using lido. I'm sure he would agree with its a good start. He simply doesn't use it.
  • There are all sorts of topical analgesics available on the market... over the counter even.  I'm not sure why anyone would be against the use of pain reducers during implant procedures.   I mean, I like to show off when it comes to pain.  I would even consider myself somewhat of a masochist, but numbing agents allow more focus on the surgery instead of the pain.

    I think most issues could be resolved by properly medicating the area and thusly enabling a higher threshold for pain because frankly, a larger area of connective tissue will need to be dissected to allow for the implant to be fitted.
  • Everyone has their preferences and reasons, even if it seems baffling to the rest of us. I dose myself to the gills with whatever opiates the doc gives me whenever I get tattoo work done, but won't take anything when my shoulder dislocates.

    I'm not sure a topical would do much in this case, judging by the last time I had to cut my hand open with only a 5% ointment. I might as well have not used it.
Sign In or Register to comment.