Brain input(anything?)

edited May 2016 in Everything else
So I am looking for two things, brain input and stimulating individual brain neurons, or at least something more accurate than tDCS. I have not found vary much on this subject, I am not really sure what to look for. So I come ware somebody always seems to know something, except no one on the internet seems to have a clue.

John Doe


  • i dont really have anything constructive to  say but something related.

    could you implant something to cause custom made hallucinations?
  • Hell why not.... But these don't really need to be implanted.... I have turned up ditto, I have done all my digging and just turned up nothing....
  • optogenetics
  • Please explain?
  • edited May 2016
    Check it out. Contains some methods I had never heard of. Also contains nice table with spatial resolution of different methods. present and emerging methods..pdf
  • edited May 2016
    I'm working on something similar to the Optically induced thermal modulation. I'm also still trying to work out whether or not the method of action is heat-based stimulation, or something else. As the document that @Slach posted mentioned, researchers still aren't sure about exactly what temperature modulation operates on. What I'm working on is still a ways off. Meaning 3 years at least.

    When it comes to brain interfaces, invasive methods are probably the most viable at the moment.

    That optogenetics thing is pretty cool, though. I'll definitely be investigating that in greater depth.
  • edited May 2016
    Thanks both @slach and @thegreyknight. Does any one know more about the accustic stimulation using ultrasonics, also could that map the brain?

    That was a great link vary strong lead!!

    How accurate would you system be, what are your major challenges that you are facing right now plus what do you see on the horizon? Also "three years at least" is oddly specific ware does that number come from.... I also assume you are working on a VR system of some sort for yours? Mine use will be for accelerated learning, and sensation stimulation, perhaps I can help you some how?

    John Doe
  • That number was a general ball park. Assuming I finish up the proof of concept for my electroanesthesia device (Which is a pretty major part of the concept I said was 3 years off), and I work pretty quickly on acquiring the equipment or lab I need to actually get hard data instead of mucking about with computer simulations, thought experiments, and chalkboards full of numbers, I could see "it" being at a prototype phase in 3 years. 

    I figure that if I finish my current project in a month, and get started on the next one, it'll take about a month to source the parts for the sensor module(about $100 in total for a very simplified version), 6 months to set up or find a bio lab where I can get some data on how nerve cells react to lasers of differing wavelength, energy, pulse length, etc, and compare that to the reactions of the same (strain) of cells when exposed to electrical stimuli. That'll cost a bit more... Then it's back to number crunching, to find safety margins for where the laser starts to damage things. After I figure out those numbers, I'd start working out how many different directions I'll have to shoot lasers from at a given point to deliver the required laser energy to trigger an action potential or suppress one, without venturing dangerously close to the energy levels that can damage tissue. After all, with all of the scattering that'll be taking place, if I'm even skirting the edge of that line, I'll exceed it at some point, because of some errant photons from a few of the beams. 

    If things work the way I want them to, I hope to have spatial accuracy in the sub-micrometer range. I'd even settle for 1 micrometer if it worked. Time-wise, 1 millisecond, I hope? At this point in time, I've been focusing on figuring out whether or not it'll work at all. 

    The biggest challenges I'm facing are probably all of the maybes and variables involved with shooting thousands of laser beams in precise patterns through skin, skull, and everything else, so that they overlap and constructively or destructively interfere with each other, thus minimizing the limitations imposed by the particular wave length of light I intend to use, and that pesky scattering effect. After that, it'd have to be the big "How does it work" question that researchers still haven't answered, with regards to how shooting a laser at a nerve cell and (maybe) heating it to a certain point in a certain amount of time leads to action potential generation or suppression.

    If I can do it with ultrasonics instead, I'll be getting right on that train as soon as I learn more. But for now, the data I have on Optically induced thermal neuromodulation leads me to believe that it's the best noninvasive option at the moment. I have nothing against invasive systems, but I'm not a brain surgeon, I wanted proper VR tech 2 years ago, and I can get all of the people who find that dabbling in medicine for nonmedical purposes to support me this way. The whole "You have no medical background, so what the hell are you doing?" barrier makes sense, but still irritates me greatly at times.

    As for the whole brain mapping thing, when I get to that point, I'm just going to write an AI that brute-force analyzes all possible sensory input points, and compares them to the brain patterns observed during exposure to controls. Since I have no way of figuring out how the neurons link and what significance that makes at this point in time, I'll just settle for figuring out a way of getting neurons to fire from a distance, and then figure out what to do with them after I succeed in that. No sense putting the Cart before the horse. 

    TL;DR "I'ma Firin' Mah Lazors!" is basically the approach I'm taking. In the interests of securing myself a nice retirement and an easy life, I'll be a bit vague about how. 

    Guesstimation for the price of prototype unit:  $2,000 just for parts. Probably a lot more with the amount of precision optics going into it. 

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