DIY Magnetic Implant Coating



  • Love watching @Chironex work on things, he bounces between things like I do. Except with more cool things x_x

    I would imagine one would just need some kind of pressure chamber to create the ideal atmosphere. I've seen production of man-made diamonds, it doesn't look like the process is impossible to modify or replicate... But just my little guesses.
  • it's done in a vacuum so very little pressure. I have everything to do it I'm just preoccupied with the supercaps. Been painting plates and testing things. I'll get back to it after bodyhacking con.
  • How are you making diamonds in a vacuum?
  • Equally as interested now... Aren't the two things you need form diamonds heat and pressure? Or is there a chemical process utilized to synthesize the diamonds formation? c_c
  • it's chemical. in the vacuum chamber there are two hot tungsten filaments. You add a mixture of ethanol vapour and hydrogen.As the ethanol hits the filaments it's splits into elemental carbon and other organics. The hydrogen is highly reducing so only the most stable forms remain stable. So anything between the filaments will get coated in a layer of diamond. If you add boron to the ethanol you'll get boron doped diamond which is black and conductive. 
  • That's insane. :D

    It's a full on 'diamond' diamond, like, the same type one would expect on a ring or as the abrasive in a cut off machine's diamond wheel?

    And I'm guessing its just fine tuning and assembling of the pieces which are why this isn't huge right now. And other projects. Is this something your going to be exploring/developing further?

    I've never heard of this before, ever. Granted, I haven't really looked, but wasn't aware diamonds could be formed like this, either. X_X (*Ignorant American v-v)

  • Ya I've already got most of the system built. I'm just preoccupied. There isn't even much fine tuning, it's all very well described in the literature. 
  • edited February 2016
    I have heard of CVD diamonds but figured they were either high end lab type experiments or were internet rumors.
  • ^^ Will be watching @Chironex. Thanks so much for the info.
  • I've seen diamond growing apparatus in action in real life. It's done with MPCVD (microwave plasma chemical vapor deposition).
    In a nutshell: powerful magnetron=> waveguide=>big metallic ellipsoid (focal point 1). and in the 2nd focal point you have your substrate and gas and whatnot. 
    The good news: the process works really well. The not so good news: You fire a lot of microwave radiation at it so expect it to get somewhat warm.
    The bad news: requires so much energy you best ask your local energy supplier for a special contract.
    The really bad news: what you grow is polycristalline diamond. Which is nothing like the regular diamond you know. Monocrystalline diamond has softer and harder crystal orientations so you can cut and polish them using the harder orientations to work through softer ones. With polycristalline you get the hard stuff... everywhere. So the only way to process it at all is by using diamond-dust and grind it for weeks and month 24/7. Anything else will fail miserably. You can literally spend a lifetime trying to put a scratch in that stuff, with no success whatsoever.
    Btw, there are many awesome uses for diamonds grown. Aside from being pretty they have crazy physical properties. Super hard, very heat conductive (forget copper or silver in comparison) etc.
  • There are lots of ways to grow diamonds. What you've describes is only one method. I've seen it done with nothing but a hot filaments in person, it was a tiny little device. Also you can adjust the parameters to get different forms of diamond. Diamond is cool although a lot of effort to get nice coatings as you said. You can find a lot of the same properties in stuff like graphene which is much more readily available.
  • Biocompatable, I'm assuming? :3

    I'm guessing it's because of variables... but why isn't this used yet for implants yet? I can see material and time constraints (as far as the generation of material being unideal/expensive in regards to resources), but other than that, is there any other threshold or limit to it? or is it still just in it's infancy and development for this application, or do the resources make it complicated.

    Because provided being formed right, like everyone else says... Sorry if I'm being a parrot at this point. But it sounds perfect, or at the least a very ideal coating.

    Assuming different methods could easily generate different ultimate results. possible to use them in a binary system to cover one another's faults as well, or generate composite layers with additional properties? The prospect of running two different coating methods only adds to complexity. but it might also fill in gaps or allow for vastly larger ability

    In any case, curiosity is watching.
  • Could this be used as a biocompatible wire?
  • Seems to me that in most cases, you would want your wires to be insulated, so what you really want is a biocompatible wire coating, which could just be silicone, which is already widely used in wire insulation. If not, you could always just use gold wire, which they have.
  • The issue with wire runs is that you want your embedded thing to match to your body, and wire is fundamentally incompatible. Wire cannot stretch and shrink with muscle movement, and therefore putting it along most joints or muscle paths is out.
    Pocketing is also the development of light scar tissue around your object (leading to the difference between bio-compatible and bio-integrable).
    Also, have you ever had a package with one of those rip-strips, that's a layer of plastic under the cardboard that you pull to tear? Picture that; but your arm.
  • edited February 2016
    "Wire cannot stretch and shrink with muscle movement"

    It's been done before. (Mind you, just devil's advocate, I realize there are limitations with bodily wire runs). Try this one, for instance.

    ripstrips under the arm...Thanks for that image right before bed T.T
  • You really just need the coating to be stretchable if you have it unattached to the wire. It would be something like how bicycle cabling works when run through cable housing. Run it through a small tube instead of having the coating be attached directly to the wire.
  • The conductor still has to be flexible enough to not resist bending. 
  • What about a tube of silicone that is filled with a conductive liquid, like say saline. (Maybe not the best example) That would solve the problem of a flexible insulater and conducter, then the the issue becomes getting it installed. Getting back to the conductor issue what about the possibility of a gel maybe?

    John Doe
  • On the note of conductive subdermal wiring, I'll just point everyone in this direction: LINK
  • In related news:

    Is running wires through blood vessels an option? Are we talking about long runs or short? I was thinking short runs not going the length of an arm or whatever.
  • edited February 2016
    Well, stationary objects inside blood vessels create turbulence. Not a problem for the short term, like IVs, but it can lead to fouling and clots and other nasty business if you leave it in too long. 

    I don't know how large the big the object has to be for this effect to really be seen, though.
  • edited February 2016
    I just wanted to install E-bows into my finger tips.... Fell down a dame rabbit hole! Looking forward to it though. Likening a conducive fluid or gel in a silicone tube.
  • edited February 2016
    AlexSmith Okay, purely out of curiosity, how fast does hot glue break down inside the body? I am not saying that I am going to do this. I won't. But I am interested. 
  • There are better ways to test drive magnets, and to coat them at home, and better things in general to do with magnets.
  • I was wondering about the strength of N35 magnets for sensitivity? I would of course prefer an N52 magnet but I can't find any with coatings I trust. I have found one with a Parylene-C coating but this one is N35, would this still be useful?
  • ^^'

    N35 3mm Dia. 1mm tall

    0.133 Force Pounds @ 0.0mm away
    0.053 Force Pounds @ 0.5mm away.
    0.012 Force Pounds @ 1.0mm away

    N52 3mm Dia. 1mm tall

    0.201 Force Pounds @ 0.0mm away
    0.081 Force Pounds @ 0.5mm away.
    0.017 Force Pounds @ 1.0mm away

    Roughly 65% of the Strength... Personally? I would find this unacceptable, N42's are frowned upon, and those average say, 80% of the strength...? ><

    One wants every tiny bit of advantage when it comes to magnetic pull. It's like drinking a soda with 35% of it being mixed in water. 
  • xepicxmonkeyx - how about looking for N55 :D
  • @Chironex did you ever complete your diamond coating cvd setup? i'm very interested in the tech but having a hard time finding any useful information on actual practical apparatus to do it.
  • Naw, got busy doing other things, though Im sure I'll pick it back up in the future. Im hoping to get to cvd and stuff by next year (i wanna make some neural lace and transistors and stuff). What you're looking for is called hot filament assisted chemical vapour deposition of diamond. There's a bunch of papers on it. Basiaclly there are 2-3 main parts. There's a hot filament or two (obviously), and the substrate, and sometimes a stage to put the substrate on.. Sometimes the substrate and/or the platform it's on is heated to get better adhesion between diamond and thing you're coating. You have to get the pressure sufficiently low for this to work, which really requires a turbopump since you also need to put gas into the chamber. You'll need a mass flow controller to control the gas flow. You input a mix of methane or other hydrocarbon and hydrogen, sometimes a bit of argon as well. Can't remember the exact mix off the top of my head. Ethanol will work in place of methane which is what I was shooting for. Basically bubbling hydrogen through warm ethanol and feeding that into the chamber. You'll still need a really precise gas valve though or your coating will be shit. On top of that, you'll need to build all of that into a chamber, a roughing pump (rotary vane pumps work well) to get the initial vacuum, and a bit of electronics to control everything and provide power to the filaments. The way this all works, is as the hydrocarbon hits the filament, it is ripped into various carbon radicals. There's no oxygen for it to burn so it just turns into carbon. The hydrogen is there to provide a very strongly reducing atmosphere so that only the most solid and stable carbon forms can form, while the rest are reduced back to hydrocarbons. I think that's pretty much the gist. Any more detail will have to come from papers as my memory of this is only so good.
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