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Neodymium implant procedure
I am currently working on a project that can be found here- https://selfmodifier.org/projects/whatisthisevenfor
unfortunately, I didn't understand one of the field's titles, and so the url is a little funky xP. but ignoring that, I wanted to start a discussion on neodymium implants for two reasons:
1) implanting procedure, and
2) safety after installation.
I know several people here have neodymium implants- is there anything that you would suggest doing different? How did your procedure go? Any complaints since the "installation"?
For people who use their hands a lot, is there anything you'd recommend? My house is heated with a wood stove so there is a lot of wood transportation and the occasional squished finger.
I'm already bioproofing with sugru, but that hasn't been picked up yet- is there something else safer, more effective, or otherwise superior for bioproofing?
Yes, this is a relatively old project. But there are people starting up and this kind of guide would have been awesome to find when I wanted to start
Comments
Displaying comments 1 - 30 of 70
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V&P Scientific sells parylene coated Nd's, which are bioproof and fairly cheap. Nate at Feeling Waves has had one implanted in his finger and it works. He had difficulty with the implant migrating toward the surface and suggested a deeper stitch for future procedures.This is likely the direction I'll go for an upcoming how-to video done with twelve of them arranged as Nate theorized might lead to higher sensitivity. Photo below is his.
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@sovereignbleak: I have the implants. I'd advise against this set-up. Anything below the fingertip is going to be ineffective. Also, you might have problems with two of the magnets in one of your fingers pulling themselves together, causing tissue damage. Also, if two magnets do work themselves together, the pressure on the silicone might cause the units to fail in a few years (maybe). I'd try super-gluing them to your hand for a day or two to see if you think they would interfere with each other.
Stacking them in series might also be an interesting experiment.
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@DirectorX Are you certain any magnet implanted below the fingertip would be ineffective?What are the strengths and sizes of implanted grinders' magnets here?EDIT: Clarified word choice.
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I don't think he means beneath the fingertip, but lower on the finger than the finger tip. The finger tip is rich in nerve endings, where as the 'stalk' of the finger isn't. Also, things migrate beneath the skin fairly easily- especially if they are small. DirectorX definitely has a point
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Sorry about the confusion. The tissue surrounding the distal phalanx is the one of the only areas with sensitive enough nerves. Anything closer to the palm has failed. The genital region is another option which has worked for people. I suspect that it may also work under the nail of the large toe.
Steve Haworth put my implant in. He told me that he has heard of people putting them pretty much everywhere on their body, but the only places that work are the fingertips and the genitals (sadly).
My magnet is small- I couldn't tell you the size or strength in numbers. I know that I wouldn't like it if the magnet was any stronger than it is.
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@Ffaway I did mean lengthwise down the finger, I'm sorry if I was unclear.@DirectorX I googled and found that stacking magnets like [SN][SN][SN][SN][SN] won't magnify the field but like [SN][NS][SN][NS][SN] will double the strength of each. You'd need another container around the two or more magnets to avoid them repelling each other.
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Hey Guys,This is the next thing I want to try (done the RFID implant etc) and have go that working with my car, bike and house. The next project on the RFID front is introducing encryption, but I wont go into that here. I would be interested in knowing what size magnets people are using and if they are available already bio-proofed. At this stage I am only going to go for the 1 implant on my ring finger. From what I read there isn't really any reason to put more in (correct me if I am wrong).CheersSlampt
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The smalles I've read about so far (not that much reading done,though) were disks with 2x1mm.
Actually, there is one more region where there should be enough nerves: the lips.
But I guess the fingers are the best place to put them.
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I'm about to purchase the parylene-coated 782N-3's from V&P. This is the same model of magnet that's in Nate's finger.Any objections before I do?I'll be implanting four, one in each fingertip of the left hand as a first test.
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That sounds exactly correct. You prepared to pay the minimum order of 50 dollars though? Its the only think that got me- I ended up getting gold coated neodymium that are .3mm thicker, and will end up even larger after bioproofing, because I don't have the cash for that size of an order.
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I got these: http://www.amazon.de/30-Neodym-Micromagnete-x1/dp/B003EAGC3M/ref=pd_sim_office_2
have to bioproof them, but they are pretty cheap...
any objections/concerns?
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I also ordered the V&P magnets (from the USA) -- I ordered the 3mm (x100) and 6mm (x10) magnets for $53, the total was around $75 including S/H.
I placed the order on Thursday via their order form, they emailed me the same day. They sent the info to my credit card company today (Wednesday).
So they're a bit slower than most online merchants that I'm used to dealing with, but they seem to have gotten it done.
Alternately, I could have procured the following cheaper magnets (USA):
http://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Neodymium-Rare-Earth-Magnets/dp/B003NUN4B6/ref=pd_sim_misc_3
or from magnetsandmagnets.com
Since the latter site is significantly cheaper for my experiments, the V&P parylene-coated magnets may end up on eBay.
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Got my magnets today. These are 1mm thick, 2mm diameter. Absolutely tiny, but I wouldn't want to go any larger to be honest.
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@Ffaway Are you implanting them yourself? If you are, let us know the materials and the technique you used.
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Yes I am :)In my original post, I have a link the selfmodifier.org, where in the documents section I have my entire lab write-up. Still waiting for my needles to arrive, but have everything else. Unfortunately, they were shipped via USPS, which is notoriously slow and their tracking system isn't all that great, so I have no idea when they are arriving. Whenever selfmodifier.org gets it's update, I hope to have an updated lab report with some extra notes on it.
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all those neodym things... good thing the times of magnetic video/audio/data tapes/disks is mostly over ;)
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Yes, i was wondering about that, anyone with these ever accidentally magnetize something that they really shouldn't have be accident?
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I have handled credit cards, hotel room keys, flash drives, etc. for prolonged periods of time to see if I could mess something up, but was unsuccessful. I guess it would take a stronger implant than I have to cause damage.
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Here is a guy who could really benefit from these implants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY745NxZwsY
I have no idea how this is possible (is he a human capacitor?), but the guy should get into MMA fighting or something.
It seems like running a current through the magnet would amplify the detection range. He might have to get rid of the silicone though and plate it with a bio-safe metal.
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@Ffaway Where did you pick up your needles?
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https://www.piercingpros.com/ were the only company that had a relatively professional website, had gauge 6 needles, and sold in orders <$20 that I could find. I'll be taking pictures of the needles when they arrive, and try to get a friend to help photo-document the procedure. They should be arriving before the 22nd, so that will give me a weekend to sterilize a bathroom and perform the operation.::EDIT:: I should also mention that I used to do small scale piercing gigs a couple years ago (legal where I live without permits/training). The websites where you can order piercing needles are have a history of being low quality in construction, have mediocre/low customer service, and go down every couple months only to be replaced with new sites. But they've never failed to deliver in my experience, even if sometimes slow, and they always have good needles- just make sure you order individually wrapped and pre-sterilized product.
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To my surprise, the needles arrived today. I would definitely recommend the site linked above ;p A comparison of the needle, magnet, and my index finger. If I were to reorder the needles, I might get a gauge somewhere in the range of 8-10 next time. These would work excellently for bigger implants in areas like the arm.
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I ordered some 1mm x 3mm nickel-coated neodymium disks from Amazon (Magnets and Magnets) and some 4 gauge piercing needles (PiercingPros). From your image, 6 or 8 gauge would have probably been a better choice. I'll see when they show up.
Does the gold coating serve any purpose if you plan on coating them with another material? I went with a plain nickel coating because the only gold-coated magnets I could find were 1.5mm thick, and would need to be bioproofed still anyways.
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I honestly don't know. It sounds like the coating doesn't matter but something in the back of my head is saying that it does. Something along the lines that gold is a very effective conductor, to help strengthen the generated electric field. But it should work just fine without the gold coat. I'm just a first year biochem student though, so don't take my word as final.
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Don't these magnets work by mechanical vibration? The Wired article alleged that neodymium coated with silicon and then gold caused an electrical field, but most of what I've seen suggests that mechanical vibration is the only source of sensation.
I don't think there should be any induced electrical potential, no matter what you coat it with (except perhaps a piezoelectric substance). And since you're coating the magnet with a bioproof substance that is probably non-conductive, you're electrically isolating it anyway.
Gold is (I thought) biologically neutral -- it is likely to be safer in the body than nickel. If the bioproofing is breached or torn somehow, it's probably safer to have gold than nickel.
my 2cents,
-J
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@John_ny are you trolling or should we take you seriously?
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I am indeed serious. Based on my knowledge of electronics and physics, I don't see where the electric field is coming from. I legitimately don't see how a coated magnet would transmit an electric signal. On the other hand, the 60Hz vibration as recorded by the "feelingwaves" blog is very clearly a mechanical effect.
As for the material safety, I'm not a chemist, but gold just feels like it would be safer.
Thank you for your documentation of this!
my 2cents,
-J
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The gold IS important. John NY is correct that it serves as an extra layer of bioproofing. Remember that these implants are toxic. They will corrode in your hand if they are exposed to your tissues.
Also, some metals have a magnetic dampening effect. Slide a magnet across an aluminum plate and you will see what I'm talking about. I have no idea if nickel is a dampening metal or not. I think copper might be.
@John_NY: The implant doesn't generate any kind of special magnetic field once the gold is applied (just the static field from the magnet). It is the reaction to other fields nearby that creates the effect. So I guess it is the mechanical movement of the implant in response to other fields that produces the sensation.
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Okay, cool. Thanks for the added explanation. This is an open community on the internet- makes some of us (me included) more defensive. @John_NY sorry about that :\If somebody could write a proper explanation as to why the neodymium implants work, that would be awesome. Apparently, what I've pieced together has been incorrect, and it'd be nice to know what is actually happening :DAnyways, update- picked up sugru from my friend's house last night, so starting on the bioproofing process this morning sometime. I'll probably have pictures up in the next couple hours. Hopefully I can get at least a couple implants installed tomorrow night and will have some photo documentation to go along with it.
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@Ffaway If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see video documentation too.Good luck!
Displaying comments 1 - 30 of 70