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Dangerous things N52 magnet no longer for sale
The biocompatible N52 magnet previously available on DangerousThings is no longer available. Does any have any information regarding this?
What are some of the current suppliers now that DangerousThings is unavailable?
Comments
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Amal posted a video last week about this, explaining how he doesn't believe any magnets currently available are safe for implantation.
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I don't know if there is a good 'current supplier' for magnets. The determinations of TiN's weaknesses as a coating is a good thing to understand, for sure, but it's a bit of an annoyance on the scale of being practically useful, on it's own.
I don't personally think there 'aren't any' good magnets, Just.. there aren't any good permanent magnet choices.. There's plenty of short-term successes, looking about, but the suppliers are either vague, out of stock, or trying to develop new stock.
I personally have interests in studying how to do things with Diamond, but that isn't on my radar or lists due to funding capacity to play with.
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@Zerbula said:
I don't know if there is a good 'current supplier' for magnets. The determinations of TiN's weaknesses as a coating is a good thing to understand, for sure, but it's a bit of an annoyance on the scale of being practically useful, on it's own.I don't personally think there 'aren't any' good magnets, Just.. there aren't any good permanent magnet choices.. There's plenty of short-term successes, looking about, but the suppliers are either vague, out of stock, or trying to develop new stock.
I personally have interests in studying how to do things with Diamond, but that isn't on my radar or lists due to funding capacity to play with.
Diamond is a fascinating idea, but not feasible. It would be massively expensive material wise, then there's the insanely difficult production to factor in... And on top of that diamond will be even more difficult than TiN in regards to the tiny molecular imperfections that he mentioned.
Diamond is crystalline, and any form of crystalline substance (Which includes many metals, although they aren't necessarily 'crystalline') will struggle with this. In my mind the two best magnet coatings are some form of resin or graphene (Incredibly difficult, but only halfway to diamond and likely far better...)
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diamond sounds nice in theory. you can grow it using microwave heated gas to create a plasma. Temperature wise i'm not sure but that's not the issue with diamond. biggest problem is, you get a very rough polycrystaline diamond surface. this stuff is virtually impossible to work with. you'll get hard crystal orientations every time. Polishing these things would take ages and would only be possible with dusted diamonds. Cutting it is only possible using lasers. The only other thing you can do it is smash'n crash it with a hammer. Everything else will fail. File, abrasives, saws,... no matter what you'll kill your tool.
anyway, we still could use a thin metal shell and laserweld it shut, maybe even a few grains of silica-gel or simmilar to deal with whatever moisture creeps in. One that's considerably bigger than a thin coating but still thin compared to a big silicone coating.
see /discussions/2102?page=1/p1 -
I don't know enough about graphene to say, but the simplicity of crystal lattice is really appealing. I know Cassox did an experiment with pvd in a vacuum on magnets, that had some kind of results. It may be expensive, but if the goal is to make a functioning implant, I think it's a method worth looking into more.. I just don't have the resources. ~3~
@thomasegi you would need to micro scale the hell out of it, but I think if you used an ultrafine slurry of diamond dust as an abrasive on a flat surface, you could over a long period polish a rough surface flat, right? This is a spitball of an idea, but would that work? also, is there any way to 'break' diamond with ultrasonic or controlled vibrations to help shape it similar to cutting glass or ceramics?
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@zerbula, yes polishing with diamond dust works but it literally takes monthes to wear down the surface even a tiny bit. it's pretty much the hardest thing you can do, sort of literally. the process i am aware of produces about palm-sized diamond disks and they require multi-kW magnetrons to keep the plasma going. so i guess batch coating would be possible but the whole setup is a bit difficult.
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Idea: Crystals grow in fluids. Gaseous or liquid. Some crystals grow in a solution, such as rock candies.
Some grow because of a solutions with specific conditions, because of outside conditions, such as gravity or (I'm guessing the lack of) relative pressure, IN a solution of something else, that may or may not be relevant, such as air and with mineral deposits in caves, in the case of stalagmites.
Is there any medium or process that can be incorporated to modify the outside surface of the diamond crystals as they grow, such as subjecting them to a specific force (such as spinning), or doing it in 'some kind' of fluid? Again, just thinking out loud to try to stimulate ideas.. Is there any kind of abundant atmosphere that changes the way that crystals form in diamond? A 'leveling agent', per se, that could help adjust the way the crystal structure at the surface layer 'settles'? I wonder what conditions need to exist for a diamond lattice's crystal structure to grow into alternate shapes. I don't know enough. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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Graphene is far simpler than a diamond coating, and due to the lattice structure will run into the same problems as diamond but far less severely due to it's tiny size and lower tensile strength, manufacturing requires less expensive equipment. It's also far cheaper material wise and manufacturing wise.
We effectively have the base we need, a nanotube. However this graphene tube isn't fully closed off, and I have yet to see someone attempt to do a fully enclosed cylinder or disk. Graphene is notorious for it's manufacturing process, and it's typically built on a substrate which would make a fully bonded disk very difficult.
As far off as the perfect magnet is, I think this is the closest thing
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Heh, maybe hybrid of Diamond and CNT? Too easy? :p
IIRC, Graphene is extremely 'tough' for its thickness, very resistant to punctures or tearing. it is still flexible and extremely thin. This sounds pretty ideal, maybe here is where Au may have a place as a filler.. maybe.. probably not.
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as a reminder. we need a moisture barrier here. means something that prevents h2o molecules do diffuse through. a monocristaline metal or diamond would be ideal. i don't know how graphene would hold up. it might be thin but i'd say it so thin that some freaky quantum-mechanic-interaction-tunnel-magic might very well be able to let h2o molecules through occasionally (totaly not an expert on this but i'd also bet the body would be able to chew off graphene for breakfast. who didn't stab himself with a pencil as kid?)
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@ThomasEgi said:
as a reminder. we need a moisture barrier here. means something that prevents h2o molecules do diffuse through. a monocristaline metal or diamond would be ideal. i don't know how graphene would hold up. it might be thin but i'd say it so thin that some freaky quantum-mechanic-interaction-tunnel-magic might very well be able to let h2o molecules through occasionally (totaly not an expert on this but i'd also bet the body would be able to chew off graphene for breakfast. who didn't stab himself with a pencil as kid?)I'm glad you mentioned both of those things. I still have 2 segments of graphite in my palm, and hasn't migrated at all in over 5 years or rejected, although that's not the proper term in this instance. Graphite alone is biocompatible, graphene far more so as the goal is to have all the carbon atoms bonded in a perfect lattice structure keeping it from splintering like graphite does.
You're talking about electron/quantum tunneling, and that's only a concern with particles themselves and certainly not entire molecules, especially ones as advanced as an H2O molecule. Quantum tunneling very well may occur, but the problem there would be it adding to galvanic corrosion which is a problem from ambient electrolytic compounds anyways.
It being insanely thin is a concern, after all for it to be true graphene the it's a single (Or couple, depending on quality) atom thick (Approximately 1 micron) which will mean structural viability will need to come from somewhere else, or multiple layers of graphene. Graphene is relatively strong by weight, hell comparable to diamond, but the key concern here is by weight
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"For it to be true gaphene then* it's a single..."
@Zerbula said:
Heh, maybe hybrid of Diamond and CNT? Too easy? :pIIRC, Graphene is extremely 'tough' for its thickness, very resistant to punctures or tearing. it is still flexible and extremely thin. This sounds pretty ideal, maybe here is where Au may have a place as a filler.. maybe.. probably not.
If we can coat it in graphene than an Au layer will be redundant. It seems like a miracle material because of everything you mentioned, but how the hell are we going to get a fully enclosed bond? connecting the ends are going to be a massive concern, I don't believe a laser welder would cut it
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Although... Bonding diamond to graphene may be easier than a fully enclosed grown graphene disk as we are not required to be as precise on the edges growing properly. It's lighting a candle with a blowtorch, but if we've got the butane... I'm spit balling but diamond would have far more surface area to bond with if it's laid over the corners of the unbonded graphene and bonded vertically instead of horizontally. It's like a band aid over a cut because the skin is more difficult to heal
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getting back to solid metal for a quick question. if the moisture creeps in through inperfect grain boundaries in thin coatings, how would changing metal thickness and grain size impact the barrier performance. like would bigger grains be preferable because there is less overall grain-corner-length. Or is bigger better for thin layers (within reasonable thickness of the grain size itself), but for bigger layers smaller grains would gain advantage cause the cracks would run into dead-ends ? quick research suggests that small material samples of pure titanium can be processed to achive grain sizes of around 200nm, which would small enough to potentially dead-end imperfections over a thousand grain-sizes distance (given the shortest way through the metal)
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@ThomasEgi said:
getting back to solid metal for a quick question. if the moisture creeps in through inperfect grain boundaries in thin coatings, how would changing metal thickness and grain size impact the barrier performance. like would bigger grains be preferable because there is less overall grain-corner-length. Or is bigger better for thin layers (within reasonable thickness of the grain size itself), but for bigger layers smaller grains would gain advantage cause the cracks would run into dead-ends ? quick research suggests that small material samples of pure titanium can be processed to achive grain sizes of around 200nm, which would small enough to potentially dead-end imperfections over a thousand grain-sizes distance (given the shortest way through the metal)Grains, when awkwardly laid next to each other, leave open space around the grains boundary. I can see you obviously already know that, but to answer your question it would be logical that smaller grains would leave smaller open space, but also logically far more of them. This is why i've recommended doing 2 seperate coatings (even if it's the same material, Ti in this case) because statistically that would drastically reduce the chance of one of these spaces reaching all the way to the magnet, despite there being more of them with smaller grains the over all open area will be smaller. Smaller grain seems better, at least according to my headcannon, but let's not take away any options yet.
If you did one solid thick coating of Ti there seems to be a higher chance of grains leaving open space and stacked grains vertically then if you split it into 2 seperate coatings which causes them to align more horizontally. Of course this then brings up the issue of the coating being less bonded to the magnet, which has a slew of other problems which could result in a failed magnet...
I've said this phrase a lot on this forum recently, but this is another case of pick your poison as we continue with trail and error. I won't create a perfect magnet, you won't either unfortunately and it's entirely possible that a perfect magnet is unobtainable with modern day resources. Even pacemakers are stagnated by the same problems these magnets are and there's billions of dollars worth of interest in them.
I'm going to start doing another batch of magnets soon, i'll open a separate thread for it in the next few weeks. Please continue down this path of questioning, it's a relatively hardly understood barrier for these implants and any research will have widespread implications for every implant. Message me if you'd like to start doing some experiments regarding this in particular with me as i'll be doing a lot of my own before I open the next batch thread, any and all help is appreciated.
Does anybody reading this have any materials and other proper equipment? If you don't have an adequate microscope to see how we can work on properly aligning the grains you can send small samples my way, and if you do but don't have materials i'll have plenty of samples I could use help viewing and cataloging.
@Cassox I know in the past you've had access to a microscope and if I remember right approximately 1500 times resolution, which is about 200 higher than mine. I'll contact you through messaging later to talk about this in depth, but I figured i'd @ you so you can catch up. Long story short i'd like to send you any promising samples so you can view them a bit more indepth so we can refine the solidification process of various coatings under different conditions and varying procedures.
This is off topic for the thread and already long enough, so this is the last thing I promise: I've recently purchased some Ti, TiN, a small amount of Au, and i'm about to purchase many different types of epoxies/resins. This is already fairly expensive, which is the main reason i'm trying to include more people in this community on my research. These coatings are not going to be put on a magnet yet, and as such I can't sell anything to make up the loss. This is the kind of thing we should all be participating in, as information is powerful and this kind of resource will be useful in almost all projects. If this gets enough community participation to be as extensive as i'd like i'll speak with Telknir to see about getting this added to the wiki, and revamping a few things myself but that's enough off topic statements for now.
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As for the original kind of off topic discussion, I will be doing more research into graphene and i'll play around with making some. But like I mentioned far up in the thread we are likely far away from successfully doing graphene, diamond, or a combination.
I am particularly interested in a CNT with the top and bottom encapsulated by diamond up until approximately 1/12 of the tube, which solves graphenes apparent inability to form an enclosed shape and also decreases the cost of diamond. I'm sure alternative materials could be used, but food for thought. Cylinders are not as desirable as disks, but they would be far easier to create. Officially rant over, input is appreciated
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Hehe, I don't have anything else to offer besides input, but at the moment I'm just happy to point in a right direction
Life is too chaotic for me to actually contribute meaningful, just to declare.. But I'll throw ideas if I see them. ^^
