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Electromagnet implant questions
I am thinking about getting magnet implants for sensing, but because of "permanent" magnets losing power over time I am wanting to use electromagnets instead. Has anyone tried this before? Are there any electromagnets I could buy that are about the size of M31 magnets or would I have to make some? Any suggestions regarding how to go about this?
Comments
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Electromagnets require a source of power. While you can buy magnets off the shelf, they are nowhere near powerful as permanent magnets.
They also require a big battery which, on top of that would be drained within minutes and generates tremendous amounts of waste heat.My suggestion on how to go about this: don't do it.
Permanent magnets lose their strength for reasons. Typically over-temperature during pre-implantation. And humidity/moisture after implantation. Better processing and coatings need to be found/developed to prevent it. -
Permanent magnets also lose strength just by being used.
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And the power source is easy.
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I should also mention that I am fine with taking a few years to work out how to get rid of the problems with strength and heat. Mainly because it will be at least two years before I can start getting implants myself without all the legal problems I would face if I got them now.
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i have been tinkering with the idea of using electro magnets aswell and i think if you used some sort of reachargable battery with a transdermal implant type reacharger that could be charged while you sleep but the only issue that i can think of aside from the issues already mentioned would be the fact that if you pull to hard on the carger set up your hand/arm would turn into a cardboard pull tab.
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I was thinking of using trans-dermal implants for powering as well except i was planning on using an external battery pack on a bracelet that could be connected to the magnets through a glove with wiring inside that connects to the trans-dermal implants.
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Implanted power source charged overnight via cordless charger? I'm tinkering with the idea of having a USB battery bank hooked to a Tesla coil in my jacket pocket as a potential recharging option.
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please guys. Do the math on it. You'll need currents strong enough to turn your electromagnet into a lightbulb. That's really not something you want in your fingertip. Besides you need bulky wires.
Even when your permanent magnet loses a significant amount of strength it's still a lot better than even the best feasible electromagnet.Unless we get flexible body-temperature superconductive materials it's just not an option. I'll give you guys a rundown on the physics once I'm back from work.
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@ThomasEgi First, thank you for your concerns and informing me on what current tech is capable of in terms of electromagnet implants. Second, yes, there are lots of problems to work out, but that is what this discussion is for. I would still like you to go over the physics with us on the current available tech as I would like to know more about the specifics of what needs to be worked out. And I understand that it will take quite a bit of work, but I still want to work on getting a feasible electromagnet for implantation. Finding solutions to things like this is something I do for fun, and if it takes a few years, that is fine. I will be working on this as more of a long term back burner project as there are many more ideas and problems to work out that are currently feasible. If at all possible, I would like you to help with this as it seems that you have much more knowledge on this topic than I currently do, which my limited knowledge is why I started this discussion. I will take all the help I can get and that includes criticism as I always like to know where I need to improve. Again, thank you and I hope you are willing to help find solutions to the problems.
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@DoctorPlague said:
I was thinking of using trans-dermal implants for powering as well except i was planning on using an external battery pack on a bracelet that could be connected to the magnets through a glove with wiring inside that connects to the trans-dermal implants.I know everyone wants to have implanted stuff but did you consider making the whole thing in a wearable glove? At least you could prove the idea without needing to worry about making it safe to implant and size would be less of a concern.
I didn't do much research but here's the first thing I found online that might give you some ideas.
https://www.electroschematics.com/5921/magnetic-field-sensor/
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okay so. neodymium magnets. Behold: ballpark numbers:
Magnetic flux density ranges from about 1T to 1.5T (N30 to N52), very roughly.
To achive the same flux density with an electromagnet, simple wire loop with 2.5mm radius (the typical 5mm diameter implant magnet).
for the lazy just throw in the numbers:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/curloo.html#c1
long story short, you need to send about 4000A (Ampere) in a loop. The recommended copper diameter to carry that much current for a single second is about 50mm (a thin wrist). You can cut down on the amp by increasing the number of turns. But even if you manage to have 4000 turns in such a tiny space you'd still need a full amp running through. You won't be able to have that many turns with a wire big enough to carry the required current. And that's to get to a level of shitty-bitty-garbage neodymium magnets.Keep in mind the only reason you can feel anything from magnets implanted is because they ever so slightly move. If you connect a bulky and stiff wire, that movement will be inhibited and you won't feel anything.
It's not feasible. Nowhere near close and no research you do will get you closer. It's a physical limitation imposed by the conductivity of your conductor. An implant-sized electromagnet couldn't even outperform a fridge magnet.
If you look at the apparatus used to magnetize neodymium magnets in first place you might get the idea. The magnets keep a good portion of the magnetic field forced upon them using a really powerful electromagnet.
So if you don't want your magnet to lose strength, don't go with the very strongest one, but slightly less strong but way more stable selections. There are special types for use at elevated temperatures or higher humidity so check out those.
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okay. maybe i misunderstood your entire question. if you want to use electromagnets as sensing element instead of a permanent-magnet-replacement, then it's a different story. Still a poor choice, magnetometers are way more sensitive and power efficient. You'd still need to convert the magnetometer result into something you can feel. aka electrode output or vibration or whatever.
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@ThomasEgi thank you for the info.
