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Magnetic Node Removal
Mine cracked a while ago, and has been slowly degrading since. I am not overly worried about toxicity, or even the fate of that particular finger, but I think it's time to take it out.
Any tips?
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A magnet degrading inside a finger is not good. I heard Quinn Norton talk about how her magnet started degrading, and that now she might never be able to get an MRI because there could be neodymium floating around somewhere in her body (magnetic livers are bad). She had her implant removed by a doctor, I believe.If I were you, I'd strongly consider getting it removed by a medical professional. Taking it out will probably be harder than putting it in, and there's a risk of missing fragments or completely mutilating your fingertip in the process.If you do decide to remove it yourself... I dunno. Maybe you could use a really strong magnet to pull out the fragments, after opening up the area?What type of implant was it?
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One of the first-generation sugru coated ones. No gold, no parylene. 3*4mm with the coat. It's been in there for like 18 months, it hasn't been working for the past three.I think you're right, I should see a professional. I considered using another magnet to pull it out, but it may have lost too much magnetism for that to work.Would a GP be willing to take it out? Or is there a better professional to see?[edit] Not sure about the MRI thing. Given the tiny volume of material and lack of magnetism, I can't see an MRI moving it around. I believe all the iron in the magnet will be rust by this stage, and the crystal structure will be completely wrecked.
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Yeah, but neodymium is still poisonous. Definitely go to a doctor; you'll get the riot act read to you, but it's their job to know how to slice you open with minimal trauma.
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@SixEcho Couple of questions. When you say "cracked" you mean the magnet itself cracked? How is the integrity of the Sugru? Do you see any dark discolorations on the skin? The magnet isn't working at all? Is this a case of demagnetization?
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I highly doubt it was demagnetization. It takes thousands of years to drain even iron magnets, and the neodyms would probably take even longer.
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The node is still physically in one piece. By cracked, I refer more to the sugru than the magnet. I think the sugru has failed and allowed the magnet to corrode. The skin always was a bit discoloured because the sugru was blue, and because it always got knocked around. The discolouration has gotten worse, though.I am pretty sure it's not demagnetization. I lost sensitivity a while ago, but I knew it still worked because permanent magnetic fields would tug on it. At some point after that it failed quickly.I won't get it out this week, because I am in melbourne for the H+ conference (which was awesome), but I will do it ASAP when I am back home.Also, @Unqualified, I researched neodymium toxicity, and while it is toxic, the LD50 for neodymium oxide is pretty huge. ( >5000mg/kg in rats. I assume it would be oxide pretty soon after leaving the node?). I mean, it's certainly not fun to have it in me, but if metabolising a single neodym could kill someone we wouldn't have made nodes in the first place.
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The LD50 usually applies to administration, and not to actually having a chunk of it inside your finger. There are many other risks involved with a non-biocompatible material being inside your finger. Best not to take any risks.I'm not sure how much oxygen is available to the magnet for it to be able to oxidise. If it did corrode, and the thin surface finish of the NdFeB magnet failed, then the iron would oxidise most quickly, which would be noticeable by a significant loss of magnetism.Neodymium magnets don't easily lose their magnetism in other ways, except when being exposed to heat or radiation.
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Our blood keeps the oxygen levels around 20% (like in the air we breath), minus the oxygen the cells use up..Is it out already? Hope you have no problems due to this!
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It's out. I have a weird cross-shaped scar on my finger, but no problems, which is good.Getting it out was pretty nasty though. A part of the node had extruded rust through the casing and welded it into my finger-meat, so all of that had to be cut out. The rest of the node wasn't attached so it could be squeezed out.I've been thinking about that in regards to Parylene implants, which are designed to form a bond, I believe. It could be quite difficult to remove or replace them if they fail, something slipperier like teflon could be the way to go.
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Did you go with a professional? or just hack a hole with a razor?
And I agree with the parylene vs. teflon.
Whilst Parylene should theoretically lend itself to a greater level of sensation due to it melding with the flesh, this could be a double edged sword, as if it flips in the presence of a large field you've just inflicted a fair bit of trauma.
teflon, whilst no doubt being easier to migrate, and flip, has the benefit of being easier to remove (hopefully) and also flipping is not a problem.
Something to keep in mind, or shoot down with more informed argument.
your call :)
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I got it done by a professional. I'm really happy I went with that option, having no anaesthetic would not have been fun.You're right about the migrating and flipping to some extent. I think the newer magnets are okay in parylene because they're way smaller than mine, and yeah, the parylene would give a better sensation. The new ones might even be too small to flip during normal operation.I wouldn't coat a node in teflon, but then again, I probably won't get more nodes. They'll be obsolete in six months anyway. Teflon will be useful for bigger implants, physical augs, and it seems to work well for transdermals if you texture the surface.Textured areas on the surface could reduce migration and flipping, actually. I'd put them close to the main incision so they stay easy to cut when the implant comes out, and then a replacement implant could be moved into the capsule.
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@SixEcho: What do you mean with: "They'll be obsolete in six months anyway?
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I suspect he refers to the current trend towards cylindrical magnets, as opposed to disks.
also, parylene-c or teflon as opposed to sugru, silicone, and other bioproofing methods used in the past, which don't seem to be mentioned much anymore.
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No, I mean nodes, any passive sensor, will be obsolete. There will be better alternatives quite soon, especially once Grindhouse starts releasing tech.And yeah, sugru, silicone, hot glue, pretty much fail at bioproofing. I like the punk aesthetic of using hardware-store sealants, but it's something you want to get right the first time and I think that means using the legit medical stuff.
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Glad to hear it went ok. You said "professional" - body mod or medical?
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Medical. I made an appointment with a local surgeon. I would recommend it, they handle the confidentiality well.
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