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DIY Magnetic Implant Coating
Hello. I am going to be implanting a 2x1mm N35 neodymium disk magnet in my left ring finger. For my implant I purchased un-coated magnets as I do not have the money for pre-coated magnets. I am aware that neither of the coatings I am thinking of using are preferable, I just want to know if they would work and which one will work better. I was thinking either:
- Hot glue (the hot-melt glue sticks used with a glue gun)
- JB Weld (not sure if this is bio-compatible, but if it is, it'd be great because it is very strong.)
Comments
Displaying comments 1 - 30 of 60
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@swolff please don't do this, if you really can't afford a magnet, then you can't afford the medical costs when this goes wrong. and trust me, it will go wrong. Hot glue will quickly break down inside the body and expose the magnet, and it should not be considered bio-compatible anyway.JB Weld is also not bio-compatible, based on this paper.Please don't do this, it will end badly, 100% guaranteed.
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Ok. Thank you for the quick reply and information. When it comes to the money, could afford a coated magnet, but I'd rather not buy one unless there is no other way. Are there any other methods of diy bio-proofing? What about electroplated gold? Thanks again!
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Beat to the punch X_XPLEASE. Please please please read the Wiki before doing anything.Even without reading it, i could paraphrase why that's a bad idea.A - Body is kinda good at breaking those things down. Solidified hot glue is almost nothing when exposed to those tissues in your body. It's mass, but not really 'unbreakable' mass.B - What's IN the hot glue sticks? They aren't exactly made to be ingested or exposed to body internals.*very guilty of not using medical-grade superglue to close injuries. I have no idea how much difference it would make, but in any case, the point being... yes, it's good stuff. No, it's not good for inside of you. >~<The Wiki is a great place to get started.Also, first post. Hello all ^^
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Gold-plated is one that's seen a lot. The hazards with it are that you are dealing with a very thin coating that isn't especially tough.If it's scratched upon implanting, It has failed and it will be bad. really bad. It's also not that hard to scratch.Not that it isn't viable, it's something I've heard of being done. But again, newbie. But consensus from what i have seen is that it's not the most ideal setup. simply really not nearly durable enough to be ideal.
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That was my concern with gold. Any other ideas? I did look at the wiki and saw that sugru won't work either.
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It's something you are putting into your body.TiN seems to be among one of the best choices. Really, I haven't seen anything else being as ideal.The issues you deal with are :-How Well does it seal-How Thick/large is the sealing material-How Bio compatable is the material-How durable is the material-How expensive is the materialQuality of senses is important. You want a strong magnet. Go with a small N52, the strength is where you will get responsiveness. But the tied in aspect is how much strength are you losing because your coating is thicker and adding mass, reducing pull and muffling strength.I'm not intimate with 'N' rating on the strength of magnets. but from what i hear, an N48 isn't nearly as ideal as an N52.
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Where does one get TiN? And do I just electroplate it on?
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It is a PVD process I have made a magnetron and I am trying to build a pump atm, @alexsmith is waiting on Chems to test his. Aside from those to options I have tried talking to several companies and none have replied or stop replying when I say the word magnet. So to recap talk to a company build your own PVD chamber or buy from a broker. Sincerely, John Doe
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@JohnDoe I'll buy a titanium nitride magnet if I have to buy a pre-coated magnet. Where can I get the cheapest? My whole thing is doing it myself or spending the least amount of money on *quality* parts. Thanks for the information andI hope you get your chamber up and running soon.
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@swolff Alexsmith is the only one I know is selling magnets atm, and for what its worth my chamber is a pickle jar and my magnetron is a speaker that I cut up when I was taking apart a TV. My point is if you look at it from simplest terms rocket science is just basic algebra. (Not really but you get the point)
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https://dangerousthings.com/ Currently Out of stock, however, BUT I think they are forecasting a few months before they have their hands on something. They aren't gone forever. If NOTHING else, this is a good place to get a little information on the nature of TiN coating. https://dangerousthings.com/shop/m31-implantable-disc-magnet/ specifically. I am also looking for a pair of these. But waiting time. v-v I absolutely refuse to settle for anything less than a very stable and robust construction done by someone who knows what they are doing (by extension, not myself. >~<). I'm hesitant to try myself out of lack of time to dedicate to it, and I'm extremely particular on quality control. That's my own preference. But all research done, to be unbiased and make a reasonable suggestion beyond my own personal perfectionism, you REALLY don't want to botch the coating. These magnets are toxic without their coating, and the materials will fall apart. Rejection is unideal by itself, and can still happen even provided having a perfect magnet that was completely inert. There is no need to add more failure points. Definitely take your time to figure out perfection with this if you are going to be doing it. ^^
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Ya this is how you get yourself killed. Don't be a fool. Either wait till an m31 is available or at worst find a paralyene coated magnet but for the love of fuck don't use hotglue, sugru, or pretty much anything that you can easily buy. This isn't something that you can skimp on. You are doing actual surgery and if you are stupid about it, at best you'll lose a hand. This is not a DIY project, end of story. Most people lack both the expertise and the materials and equipment to coat something properly, yourself definitely included. I built a titanium nitride coating machine but it took months to get it working and even still it doesn't work properly and I've been making vacuum systems for years and already had most of the equipment. Your best bet is to wait for something nice to come on the market which looks like it'll be happening soon. So be patient
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Trust me. A PVD system isn't something to fool around with. And why would you need a magnetron @JohnDoe ?
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Thank you all for the quick replies. I guess I will be buying a pre-coated magnet, because as @chironex pointed out, I have not had experience building these types of systems. I appreciate the help from everyone. When the m31 is back in stock, I'll snag one. Thanks again!
--Sam
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All of my research has called the device a sputtering magnetron. All it is is a pole pice in a ring magnet, that is the part that you set what ever you are wanting to use as a coating on and apply HV. This works by taking ions from the material to be coated and depositing them on the object getting coated. I will not be implanting the first one I make, I do plan to test the hell out of them before I implant.
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What are you using for your voltage source? I'd be interested if you could document your set up in another thread. Maybe some pictures.
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I will I just got the vacuum blues atm, I am trying to do this for all less than100$, most of my ideas a re clever and resourceful I am stuck on a low cost alternative to silicon oil. Any ideas? Edit: My best idea atm is DOT 5.1 break fluid. Don't worry I am not going to be using it in a diffusion pump.
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What about electroplated stainless? Stainless steel is used in many medical implants, and if I electroplate a relatively thick coating on, I would think that would work. Any thoughts?Edit: I know its pretty difficult, but I have lots of lab experience. I am 99% sure I can do it, and if it turns out I can't, I won't risk it.
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How are you planning on testing the coating before implanting?
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1) if you are going to do this get a better magnet.2) dont do it3) here is how to do it http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EPYB5ZQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpageI have 2 magnets in the side of my hand that have been very happy for about 2 months now. They have been coated in this stuff and checked to make sure the coating was complete.
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@JohnDoe To test my coating, I am going to plate two or more magnets (as many as needed for testing, and a final one for implanting). As said by Adam Savage, “The difference between screwing around and science is writing it down.” So, based on that, I will record my procedure for every magnet I plate. After I finished plating a magnet, I will take a scratch test to determine the thickness and drop the magnet from about 2 ft. to make sure it isn't too brittle. After I get a good result, I will repeat the steps taken for the best result to produce the magnet that will be implanted (obviously, I won't be scratching or dropping this one).
@Benbeezy I will have to look into that stuff. If the stainless steel doesn't work out, I will definitely give that a try.
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There are chemical that will allow you to test for what's called pin holeing, when the coating cools it shrinks leaving small pin holes in the coating. You need something that will react with the magnet but not the Stainless. Just my thoughts....
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@JohnDoe I will look into that. Do you think the stainless steel is an acceptable choice for a coating though?
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Honestly I have no idea.... But in my opinion there is a difference between a scalpel and a biocoating, the thing is a scalpel will not be staying in you body and a biocoating is so it won't come out. My only issue with stainless steel is that it contains chrome. I have experience in welding and it as always been said to never weld chrome with out good ventilation and a fresh air mask. Sincerely, John Doe
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As far as I understand stainless steel is a basic biocompatible material (used for piercings), however, the stainless steel will interfere with the magnetic fields, and furthermore, the coating process would probably damage the magnet. So it's not a viable magnet coating.
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Well, I guess it doesn't matter anyway, because I just found out you can't electroplate anything with stainless steel. Looks like I'm at plan b with Benbeezy's epoxy. But thanks for your help guys. Also, JohnDoe, don't weld galvanized steel either. I have some experience in welding too. :D
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@swolff Eager to see what happens with it. ^^ Hopefully m31's are going to be floating about soon, if you are looking for an ideal magnet, they are still the most ideal magnet I've found myself throughout looking around... Hmm... Carbon... idea, and I think someone was already developing something for this. Perhaps growing a crystalline structure of some variety around one? A layer of diamond would be ridiculously strong. Or even something less intense but still solid may be good. ^^
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Well, @chironex is working on making a diamond coating machine.
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How is he handling the pressure?
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That sounds ridiculously expensive...
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