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New idea for implant
This isn't my idea, I found it posted here: http://feelingwaves.blogspot.com/2009/01/experience-sensation-without-implant.html
I didn't find it anywhere else on here, although I might have just missed it, but I thought I'd share.
by Kelly Reid:
"Wouldn't it be possible to get a piercing on you hand. and then put in a barbell that has magnetic ends. So it would kinda be like an implant but you wouldn't have to worry about rejection because you could change out the magnetic ends for normal one when the tissue gets sensitive."
I think in terms of day to day practicality the idea needs a bot of work, but I can see it being possible. Any thoughts?
Comments
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Definitely possible, the best way I can think of doing it....or at least for the most sensitivity & EM touch practicality would be to get a dermal anchor on a finger tip. There's a few problems with this though, first being who the hell wants a bolt sticking out the end of their finger? Second is that it's highly likely to get ripped out or at least rejected from being knocked too much. Not to sure how a fingertip would receive an anchor either...It could also be placed on the back of the hand I suppose, like between the knuckles or tendons. I'd still stick with dermal anchors as a surface piercing bar will likely be too heavy & (definitely) already noticeable under the skin to be able to detect static fields. Alternating currents could be quite an interesting feeling thinking about it. Surface piercings tend to be thought of as temporary piercings anyway & reject quite easily. The push & pull of the magnets will only make them reject quicker. Unsure as to how likely this is with dermal anchors
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...as their feet that sit under the skin are designed with holes in them so tissue grows through them.(obviously unsure if the back of the hand would be sensitive enough anyway as it seems implants in every other location aside from the fingertips fails)Last problem I can think of is that I've neverheard of magnetic piercing attachments. And I know a bit about piercings. Tbh ceebs googling it either since if you decide to go through with it you'll need to look it up eventually yourself :)
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Nah I'm definitely going with the more traditional method, just seemed like a good idea.Yeah the whole getting ripped out/ having a bolt on your finger was what i meant by it needing a bit of work. But I'm thinking in terms of venturing into transdermal implants it has potential.
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My bad actually, the magnets play on rejection is irrelevant I suppose unless you wear them more than a day at a time. I do think it's unlikely the skin will get sensitive though, the rejection is gradual & unnoticeable unless you are looking for it...
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Perhaps with this it might be possible to test other areas of the body? If the magnet is external, there's more space to have a larger magnet, so we could try parts of the body that aren't as sensitive as the fingertips, and that won't reject as easily. Not sure how this would work with the back of the hand, maybe somewhere away from ligaments that are constantly moving?
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Yeah definitely, I have a transdermal project I'm trying to suss out atm. Basically it's a microSD card connected to a micro USB port. I want the unit to sit under the skin and have the port flush with the skin. This to me though seems impossible as skin would either grow over it or it would reject out. I could put soft barbs on it to try & wedge it in a little more. That would make the implantation very messy I think (not that it wouldn't be). Or to stop skin growing over I could attach a sugru disc to the end the port to sit on top of the skin. Lol ridiculous.In terms of placement I was thinking left hand between the index & thumb's tendons with the port coming out somewhere in the trough between the index finger & thumb.Thoughts on this, or what did you have in mind?
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I think it might be a fine balance between feeling something and having them rip out because they are too strong....It'd be funny seeing that happen I think, but at the same gross & I'd feel way bad for whoever it happened to.
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& yeah, the constant movement in & of hands would definitely exacerbate things. They would still be pretty exposed to knocks too..
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Hmm, sounds like a cool idea. Interesting idea for placement, the trough between the index and thumb tends not to heal very well (probably because of movement and such) which could either work to your advantage, or fuck everything up. Could be good place to put it to minimise possibility of infection, but you'd still have to work out some way of preventing foreign bodies from entering you via this constantly open hole. Would it affect the movement of you thumb much? Because if it does, it'll definitely affect your everyday life, being the thumb and all.I'm just throwing around ideas, I've still yet to even get a magnet in the finger, but I'm still interested in what other projects could be started.
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yeah so hands a no go then, good points. Crap getting in the port won't be an issue as it will all be bioproofed, around the edges though....depends on the design of this thing & how well the skin heals around it I guess. It shouldn't restrict movement MASSIVELY, but there would be lots of pulling & tugging associated with movement which would maybe make it horribly uncomfortable.In the forearm or inside of the bicep would be fairly easy I guess?....not literally inside the belly of the muscle, I was referring to which side, just to clarify.
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Well, I know someone has tried putting magnets in their forearms before, but it didn't work because it probably wasn't sensitive enough. That being said, I suppose that means it is relatively easy to cut yourself open there and know what to look for (hopefully...). I'd hate to think what would happen if something got caught on it though, maybe develop some kind of cover? Inside of bicep sounds kind of annoying to use/plug into. It'd be a shame if you got it implanted but then never bothered using it because it was too much of a hassle.
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The skin in that area is quite soft so I know what you mean there with it being a hassle. My major qualm with this is how quickly it will beome outdated. So while I don't think it's worth abolishing, as it is, it has a long way to go.
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Seems to me like putting a magnet in the forearms or in some other odd place might be good for the occasional cheap parlor trick but it stops there. It's all about sensing the EM, and small magnets in the fingertips seems to be clearly the best for this purpose. Doesn't seem like much of a decision to me.
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Im super stoked to announce that I will be implanting within the next week after the rest of my materials arrive! My magnets and scalpels came in today as well as my bioproofing material. I will post my progress as the week moves along. I am still in need of a spotter and I really don't want to do it alone but my fiance doesn't want to watch me do it. I will try to get some pictures post-op but my web cam is shoddy so I cant make any promises. Wish me luck fellow transhumans.
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If you want to get EM sense off of a traditional piercing your best route to go would be on the tongue. That's about the only place you're going to get the sensitivity of the fingertips without the inconvenience of microdermals in your fingertips. Granted, you might look a little strange, licking the air around air around wires, but anything for science, right?In terms of nerve-density, lip implants might have potential too, but, in that case, what happens when grinders kiss?
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I'd suppose that depends on the strength of the magnets.
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so, what about magnetic powder micro-impacted into the skin?
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What kind of magnetic material do you think would be used for the powder glims?
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Magnetic powder, or particles may work, given they are done right. Looking at the theory, there are three major types of receptors that can pick up motion and deformation of the skin. Merkel cells - for very low frequencies (0.3 to 3Hz). since people with magnetic implant reported that static fields are rather difficult to feel, that's probably not what we are looking for. Meissner's corpuscles - they have their maximum sensivity around 50 Hz, so they are potentially involved with sensing a magnets movement, but they require rather large skin indentation to detect something (20μm). They are located in the epidermis, very close to the actual skin surface. So while they could be involved, they aren't likely to be the key factor here. Lamellar corpuscles - with a maximum sensitivity frequency of about 250Hz they can sense skin-indentation down to around 2 or 3μm. They are located in the dermis. I sort of remember people with magnetic implants reporting the best sensitivity between 200 and 300Hz (altho i can't find the reference for that anymore, anyone can confirm this?). So these receptors seems to be the one to target. So the target location would be as close to the lamellar corpuscles as possible without damaging them. The magnetic particles need to be small enough to get as close as possible. The amount of force, and thus displacement they can produce increases with volume. Since those two contradict there's probably a sweet spot in terms of size. The coating would have to be as thin as safely possible, and made from an bioactive material that binds to the tissue to prevent undesired rotation of the tiny particles. My best guess would be you end up with ellipsoid particles sized between 50μm to 500μm (with 250μm looking like a reasonable start since too small particles may end up in the bloodstream). With the magnetization axis running along the longest axis of the ellipsoid. just my 2cent brainstorming tho.
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I have the optimal coating for just this situation.So, what would ones optimal delivery method be? That size is too big for a tattoo gun, but maybe a very precise injection?Also, what would be the effects of having clusters of magnets? I know that having, like, one in each finger is just excessive, but if you had say, ten 250um magnets evenly spaced over a surface, would you increase sensitivity, or would they just interfere with each other?
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@glims If we're going imprecise maybe vacuum injection? And spacing would potentially be determined by individual nerve density. But like said above there would be a point where they would be too small, or too big, and ultimately a lot f testing would have to be done.
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Interference between individual magnets shouldn't be too big. Since that'd be a static condition, and the receptors for motion only pick up dynamics it's not exactly a problem. By far more problematic is the size of the magnets. In case you want to remove them because maybe you cut your finger when chopping vegetables and thus, damaged the coating. Removing a bunch of 250μm sized particles that are ingrown with the tissue isn't exactly an easy task. It may be an option to have them FEP coated tho.
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I would use a polycarboxybetaine coating, but that's just cause i work there and trust the tech.Ah, fingers, yes... i was still thinking about lips....I feel like such small particles, especially with he thinnest possible coating would just be ejected if the coating was damaged. does this sound like a thing, or am i off base?
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