The notorious mushroom thread: Don't be this guy. MyceliumSupercomputer

edited August 2015 in Everything else
Hello everyone in this paragraph i will be sharing with you all, my thoughts and ideas on how we can advance wet ware technology and the over all computing power.In a nutshell i want to use fungi and bacteria as a circuit board , processor and a electric generator. the advancement of fungi computers would benefit wet ware technology based on 3 simple facts the first one is fungi live in and around all of us, second fungi can create symbiotic and parasitic relationships with plants animals and bacteria.third there are more bacterial cells in are body than are own cells.the ultimate goal here is to learn how to program fungi so we can program bacteria in the same way that crown gall bacteria programs D.N.A ,if this is done  we will be able to reprogram any living organism sins fungi and bacteria are interwoven in all life forms.              



  •, you want to program some shrooms. Can you do this at home? Do you have any idea how to do this? Is @ThomasEgi here with his flowchart yet???
  • No, but here it is.  Actually, depending on whether you consider this to fall under "DNA" or not, this flowchart might either return "Success" or throw an exception.  Yes, I've been doing too much programming lately.
  • I'd say programming/altering organisms falls pretty clearly under genetics, if not DNA. This "idea" still throws feasability a loop.
  • Well, as long as the answer to "Know how to make yeast glow in the dark?" is "Yes," then the flowchart succeeds.  I'm probably taking this way too literally, though.
  • Just a little :P presumably someone with a basic understanding of biology/genetics/common sense would realize that saying you want to make shroomputers doesn't mean you can make shroomputers...
  • Um... yeah. I'll play. We'd really have to break down the problem into a few thou sub-problems. The main one to me? Signalling. Fungi doesn't have a central nervous system dude. No nervous system, no neurons, etc. There is some signalling of course, but it's slow slow... more like hormones.

    I'm thinking you'll say: We'll program it to have one!... In which case, I'd tell you that a nervous system is incredibly expensive to maintain in an organism and fungi don't have a high enough metabolic rate to keep a nervous system going.

    If you choose to go with: Well, we could ramp that up too... I would say then why start with a fungus? Why start with a fungus and try to turn it into a chordate? Why not start with something like a Rats brain, and see if you can use the neurons to make a computer... This is actually being done already.

  • The only reason you'd use fungi for a computer is because they're good at travelling salesman problems, but then you'd only use it for the design stage anyway after which you'd go onto hard silicon (or graphene, if you're in the future (or silicine, if you're in the far future))
  • edited July 2013
    fine then Mr. technical / Saal
    1.the first step (it's all about circuits)the first steps i can take
    at home which is generating electricity, if potatoes can aid in the production of generating electricity by attaching the right circuit to it .A potato is a root and fungi or mycelium can create symbiotic relationships with roots i assume it might shear its electrical conductivity . Dirt saturated in water can aid in the production of generating electricity if the right circuit is attached to it as well, this is called an earth battery.if i can create a electrochemical battery or some kind of circuit and attach it to the fungi, that would open the door for fungi to be used as circuit boards thus powering all kinds of devices i have not done this yet it is just a hypothesis.  

    2.(fungi processors)the second step is a little harder as Cassox so eloquently put are right and wrong at the same time my friend yes we are going to have to reprogram or genetically engineer ,alter,what ever you want to call it bottom line we must create modified fungi with neurons that can process electrical input. so the fungi can be grown on a circuit board just like the rats brains.and you are wrong by saying that the fungi have No nervous system,  The nervous system of the human being is responsible for sending, receiving, and processing nerve impulses throughout the body. fungi have a similar system, in which they send and receive chemical signals throw out their body depending on the internal or external stimuli i consider Mycelium or fungi as being one big nervous system. As for that slow slow hormone like Signalling you are talking about that is called Active transport,and this is a big reason i want to use fungi instead of rats brains. if you put a neuron in the dirt it is not going to gather energy from the ground and reproduce more neurons. but if u put some fungi in the ground with the right conditions some fungi will live for thousands of years and can extract different elements from the ground such as feces, oil, dirt ,rocks,metal and even radioactive material and use as a source of energy .

  • 1. Dirt in water does not produce electricity. It can conduct current, same with the potatoe, but it doesn't produce it.
    2. A fungus is not "one big nervous system".
    3. This is not a hypothesis.
    4. See Cassox' post.
  • edited July 2013

  • A "cool idea" missing that "prior knowledge and observation". This is not a tentative explanation or investigatible theory. This is something that you thought would be a cool idea but that you have no idea how to implement. As Cassox said, this is possible, but it would be unfeasible and a waste of time for a research team with limitless funding; we're working out of basements and garages. I'm not trying to be rude here; social skills are something I'm lacking in. I just assumed you threw this idea out to, as you said, hear any thoughts we have on the matter. I and several others have explained why this idea is unfeasible; don't take it personally, just go back to the drawing board.

    TL;DR your "hypothesis" is too general & is unfeasible. Comparison: "Trees have cells. Humans have cells. Let's get this tree walkin!"
  • P.S. You can't base a hypothesis on false info like the idea that potatoes or glasses of dirty water generate electricity. Unless of course your intent is to not be taken seriously...
  • o  wise and mighty saal please do not be so eager to hold on to my mistakes for u see i am a human and that kind of stuff happens some times .i do thank you for pointing out my mistake,i rewrote the sentence to say if potatoes can aid in the production of generating electricity and i thank you for putting in some of your time ,ideas and energy but i must disagree with you when you say it is a waste of time and that i have a lack of prior knowledge or observation when it comes to this subject and you did not explain
    why this would not work you just told me  Dirt in water does not produce electricity,This is not a hypothesis,A fungus is not "one big nervous system and i have no idea how to implement. And the other you speak of his name is Cassox all he told me a nervous system is incredibly expensive to maintain in an organism and
    fungi don't have a high enough metabolic rate to keep a nervous system
    going he never stated that my hypothesis was unfeasible
  • ......look, friend, I'm not here to argue with you, so I'm going to explain why, in my opinion, this idea is a waste of time IN THIS SETTING. I leave you to draw your own conclusions on the feasability of your idea, hopefully considering my input.

    1. Fungi have no discrete nervous system; they simply don't need it and can't support it. Fungi are primarily parasitic, and primarily inanimate/sedentary. As such, they have to thrive on slow metabolism of relatively small amounts of energy. As they are, they could at best possibly achieve the functionality of a four function calculator.
    2. If you wish to genetically engineer a nervous system that you can then splice with fungi (you still haven't specified what species of fungi) you must increase the metabolism and increase the chemical energy draw of the fungi. This is a task that is orders of magnitude more difficult than you make it sound. In addition, since most fungi are either parasitic or decomposers, using them in wetware results in essentially sucking the life out of your own tissue cells.
    3. This is a biohacking forum. Everything accomplished here is DIY. None of the genetic modifications necessary to make this happen are possible (or sustainable) outside a well funded lab.
  • edited July 2013
    I think your reading the inflections all wrong mind. It's not Saal; it's the climate of this forum. Your ideas may be great, but they won't get as good a reception as someone who glues quarters to their knuckles and punches walls. The reason is simple: doing is what this forum is really about. (At least from my perspective).

    I could rip into the mycelium thing and criticize... Or I could come up with ideas trying to make it more feasible etc.. but the point is, do you know how to do these things? Can you do it here and now?

  • Reference: Sealab 2021, Episode 3 I, Robot. Entire episode is the characters arguing about the various robot features they'll have. This reminds me of the majority of transhumanists.
  • @mind What are the results of your initial experiments?
  • edited July 2013
     i appreciate your input saal and will take in to consideration what you have told me  and i would like to say that i am definitely going to run with your four function calculators to answer mkabala and Cassox  questions as for knowing how to do these things and being able to do it here and now, i have most of the materials i need to create and hook up a circuit to the fungi
    i bought some copper and silver wires and some led lights  to create the fungicircuit . i was attempting to grow some fungi called ("B+"  Strain) it was colonizing until i got kicked out of the place i was staying at then it got infected with another fungus and i had to throw it out thats as far as my initial experiment got.hahah yea i watched Sealab 2021 funny shit
  • .... how were you planning to interface between metallic conductors and the fungi with no neurons? Not trying to shoot you down here, I'm genuinely curious. It sounds like all that will achieve is proving that fungi conduct electricity :\

  • i am going to attempt to interface the circuit with fungi by either sticking copper and silver straight in the organism or by rapping the metals around and under the fungi. proving that fungi conduct electricity is a step that must be taken if i want to make a MyceliumSupercomputer a little more feasible

  • I can assure you it is going to conduct some electricity, on account of it being made of matter....

    Anyways, I really gotta ask. This is gonna piss you off, but how many of those B+ caps did you eat before conceiving of this idea?

  • Now, now, play nice, you two...

    Anyway, @TheMind, I personally think you'd be better off (and would be better able to make this practical) if you were using neurons instead of fungi -- which, incidentally, are actually commercially available (even cultures of human neurons can be bought online).

    The problem with fungi, and the reason you probably need a nervous system, is because it's not enough for the fungi to conduct electricity.  It sounds like you want to use the fungi not just for gathering power, but also for processing; in this case, you also need to be able to perform logical operations on the signals.  Nervous systems can be trained to do something like this, but I think you'd be a bit hard-pressed to do that with fungi, even with their chemical signals.  I suppose you could try using fungi to power a nervous system, but that itself raises a plethora of issues, like whether the fungi will be able to generate enough energy.

    I do remember a biohackers' project a while back where she got bacteria to act as logic gates, but I can't find anything about that on Google.
  • My apologies for getting nasty there. I just found it quite amusing that the first variety of fungus chosen for a cubensis strain with an above average psilocybin toxicity.

    But hey, there's efficiency for ya....your data and your inspiration from the same source :P
  • edited July 2013
    Cassox asked me Why dont i start with something like a Rats brain culture but i was not aware of how easy it is to buy  human neurons online. and bacteria that act as logic gates just the kind of information i was looking for . thank you these are some of the best suggestion and info i got in 2 years i know when i sall yall on taboo you all would be able to help me advance this technology Cassox , saal and lan i thank you!!! .Cassox and Ian great information and saal good conversation.

    how meany B+ caps did i eat unforchantly the mycelium was contaminated the mushrooms never had the chants to form so 0. but haha yeah yeah you know we got to be efficient and actually most of the info and my inspiration came from Paul Stamets,cool guy he is definitely not google or YouTube enough.
    Psilocybin mushrooms of the world,The mushroom cultivator,Mycelium running,Growing gourmet and medicinal mushrooms =

  • ThomasEgi

    December 2011


    while searching for a bunch of amplifiers to do non-implantable
    ecg reading i stumbled across a nice part that qualifies for implantable
    stuff, too.
    is pretty much a "everything in one chip" sollution to get feedback
    from nerves into a microcontroller. that means. electrodes on one end,
    μc on the other, done. it contains the entire analog frontend that would
    usualy fill up a box.
    this friend comes with 1 channel input, has a bunch of bigger brothers that can handle 2, 4 and 8 channels.
    it comes in packages that are small, but still possible to solder without expensive reflow equipment.
    they also are reasonably low power, theoretically run several days on i tiny rechargeable lithium battery.
    short. i am hyped up about those things, they could be the ticket to
    real interaction with active-implants. and up to 8 channels would be
    quite a lot of data you can use.

    i ordered a whole bunch of
    samples to build some test boards. they wont ship cause they are
    backordered. but i hope to get them end of january.
    comments or previous expericences are welcome :)
  • ThomasEgi

    July 15


    transmitting power is not exactly rocket science. even plain old
    128kHz (which is easy enough to diy from discrete parts) can get you
    2-digit milliwattage. not a lot, but for most implants that'll be more
    than enough.

    same goes for data. it all depends on how fast you
    need to go. if you just want to cross the skin, a red-led based optical
    transmitter will easily get through some mm of skin and get you , i'd
    say 32kbps without much trouble. rfid for data works aswell.
    separating those 2, data and power, gives a lot of flexibility.
  • congratulation on duplicating information on this board. is there a particular reason why you did this?
  • yes i like these to post they have information that i can use.
    example The ADS1191/2 incorporate all of the features that are commonly required in portable, low-power medical electrocardiogram (ECG),
    ,this  enables the creation of scalable medical instrumentation systems at significantly reduced size, power, and overall cost.
    with this tech we can monitor the flow of electrical power or charge in my future  biological processors and generators
    and the red-led based optical transmitter i want to use that as some kind of nervous system
  • edited July 2013
    this proves that fungi wants to integrate with computers

This discussion has been closed.