Iron-Nitride Magnets

edited November 2015 in Magnets

I don't recall if anyone has discussed this here.

I don't remember where I was reading it, but I saw somewhere that it's strength is like N130 or so.



    Oh yeah. It's in the patent. It's N134.
  • Will it be cheap seen as its cheap materials and can be mass produced, or do they have 'exclusive licence' and cost is massive.

    Can they be made at 3x1mm, and will it coat in the preferred bioinert/biosafe coating?

  • There is no way they'll do these for me. I've gotten a response though and they're going to forward me to the people who are making them.
  • huh that's hilarious, i was just looking at iron nitride for one of my projects since it has better magnetic properties. I'll be making nanoparticles of it eventually. weird that it can be n134.
  • Do you think it'd be possible to suspend said nano-particles in silicone and make "gel" magnets?
  • And then cure the silicone? My own experiences with polarity in a silicone matrix make me wonder about this. We were using a polar molecule and attempting to suspend it in silicone and then cure it. We had some issues in that the molecules had a tendency to self arrange by polarity, causing the molecules to bulk in some areas, forming patterns and weak spots in the gel.
    If you had a way to keep them suspended in a field so that they didn't move.. but that was just too difficult. it was easier to just modify the molecule.
    Anyway, my point is that theres nothing to keep them in place, so it may not work.
  • edited November 2015
    @TheGreyKnight no. What gives magnets their magical magnetic superpowers (as I understand it) is the forced alignments of electron spin during the formation of the crystal lattice of molecules that make up the magnet itself. This alignment is maintained by the lattice, where molecules in close proximity influence each other to maintain their electron spin. In the case of a suspension (i.e. silicone gel), you have no crystal lattice, and no tendency of adjacent molecules to strongly influence their neighbors.leading to permanent magnetization. Even if you could temporarily magnetize such a suspension, it would almost immediately lose it's magnetic ability once you started playing around with it. 

    Also magnet particles in a gel would require a specific cauldron and chant I'm not sure we have access to.
  • Depends what you mean when you say "when the magnet is formed". When the material making up the magnet is formed it's largely non magnetic. It has a preferance of direction but not enough to truly be called magnetic. It's magnetized later with a big electromagnet. SO if there was enough of you stuff in the gel you MIGHT be able to force it all to align. Here's the problem. Unless the gel is chemically bound to the material and was essentially solid it won't work. The magnetic material would get ripped out of the solution. You need some sort of surfactant to keep it separate. Also if it's fluid the particles will just spin around and the whole stops being magnetic. This can be seen in ferrofluid. It can be made out of iron nitride but the liquid doesn't have a magnetic field. It never could because the bits are free to move.
  • edited November 2015
    I was thinking more along the lines of what @glims mentioned. Could you minimize the bunching of the molecules during the curing process by exposing it to rapidly changing magnetic flux in several directions, in a cycle (Like, exposing the "top" to a northern field and the bottom to a south, and vice versa, whilst exposing sides to a similarly cycling field?) keep the particles in motion throughout the curing process to improve the distribution?

    Another thing that struck me was the movement of suspended particles in a closed tube when partially immersed in an ultrasonic cleaner. Ultrasonics would be considerably easier to do than an alternating magnetic field. 

    And once you've cured your little silicone-iron nitride pellet, you magnetize via standard methods. It probably won't be as strong as a traditional, rigid magnet, but in terms of ergonomics, it's a lot friendlier to the body having something that'll flex and compress somewhat. 
  • Neodymium is really shitty to try to shape. It's only somewhat machinable. There are "Neo" magnets that you can get in a resin similar to the gel being described. You can shape it however you want. Unfortunately the field is too weak.
  • @Cassox how about electro erosion for shaping? Not sure if the material is conductive enough but maybe worth investigating as it's a simple process
  • Interesting. I'll look into it.
  • Ive never read about iron nitride.  Ive have machined some crazy hard, high $$, high nickle content stainless steel.  Designate PH 17-4.  I bring it up because of all the materials in the shop this is by far the most attracted to magnets.  Ive wondered how well it would do if it were permenantly magnetized.  i dont have the means to zap it or any mags though. I do have some bar ends i intend to make tat machine coil cores with.

    as for the FeN,  I wonder if the nitrogen arranges the iron in such a way to increase magnetism so greatly.  reading more, there are five differnt nitrides of iron. a few can be made at room temp.  Also, FeN as a  colloid is what is used in strong ferromagnetic fluids and likely concept body armor.

    Shaping neo by machining isnt too bad but very delicate.  I hand ground a 3mmx.8mm mag from neo out of an old sata notebook hdd. It only took once heating up before i killed who knows how much gauss.  It was a boredom thing, i made it as an implant size example for my wife.  she thinks im nuts but seems interested when i talk about it.
  • What is the score with these? Any joy?
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