M31 Rejection Collection Thread
  • In light of the recent rejections of m31 magnets, for the sake of data collection and organization, could those who have had an M31 reject make note of the event on here, along with a short to medium length summary of the circumstances surrounding the failure?
  • glimsglims April 2015
    Don't just chip in with a "me too!" please make sure to outline the instances in which you ended up having the magnet reject (set self on fire, crushed hand, etc). Getting this information in one place will be useful to others in terms of aftercare and what to avoid.
  • D_AxelD_Axel April 2015
    Sorry, just a question about rejection: If your body does reject the m31, can you just sanitize + put it back in after your finger has healed up, assuming the coating is still intact?
  • glimsglims April 2015
    That should be ok. Unless it is damaged, you can clean it and implant it like any other piece of jewelry. Make sure you do a really really good job tho. And don't clean it so hard that you mess it up.
  • Also consider the cause of rejection, you may not want to try a second take using a compromised implant if there's a chance that's what caused the first rejection.
  • glimsglims April 2015
    Totally. Did you crush, smash, or set fire to your magnet? If so, be very careful.
  • Really surprised we're not getting mroe posts in here considering how many people I've seen talk of their magnets rejecting (often with very cool pictures).

    FWIW, I haven't gotten around to implanting my two magnets yet, and at this point I'm holding off based on what seems to be an unusually high rejection rate (which may or may not have anything to do with the implants themselves).
  • I think it's probably user error, in conjunction with experimental implant methods. That's the trend I've seen so far.
  • Yeah, I think people tend to implant too shallow, like when the outline of the magnet is visible against the skin. I've got two of the much thicker Haworth magnets, and after each was implanted there was no visual indication of where the magnet was, whether 24h later or 2y later.
  • D_AxelD_Axel April 2015
    How deep should they be implanted?
  • PrisPris April 2015
    First implant of M31 magnet into inside of ring finger, left hand 4th February 2015. I used PMK, incised, place magnet, applied one stitch and surgical super glue (I was concerned about germ penetration as I work with spare parts at a coal mine). I removed the stitches 4 days later. Wound healed well. 18/2/15 magnet appeared to be protruding from finger. 23/2/15 magnet was protruding through the skin. I do not recall any hand injury; I was swimming most days, spending 40-80per day in the pool which would have allowed for the skin to soften and wound site. I squeezed magnet out and inspected coating for damage. Re-inserted, cut/granulated entry point and re-stitched. Once stitch was removed the magnet literally popped out.

    Re-implanted M31 at same site on 18/03/15. I cut deeper, placed two stitches and applied spray skin (for moisture/germ protection). Wound heeled. On days were I spend a lot of time picking parts I place a piece of plaster over the magnet site to provide outward pressure and support.

    I am also wondering if taking anti-biotics has had a part in rejection; as I was on anti-biotics when first implant rejected and with second implant I was anti-biotics and magnet started to pronounce from the deep.
  • V10latorV10lator April 2015
    @D_Axel AFAIK there's only fat, nerves, blood vessels and the bone under the skin.  So I would suggest implanting it into the fat, around one to two millimetres below the skin. But keep in mind that every finger is different (in terms of how thick it is) and you shouldn't hit the digital nerve (yellow) nor the blood vessels (red) :
    image
  • bciuserbciuser May 2015
    "Me too!" After about a month of non-healing (see bciuser's first implant for pictures and details), and continuous seeping of the implant area I decided to have my implant removed. No extreme stupidness to speak of, will try again when the area heals up.
  • Any further rejections?
  • fred4106fred4106 May 2015
    I had an m31 reject from my pinky finger after about 4 months. At first it seemed to heal up nicely and was reasonably sensitive.  After about 2 months, it started to get more and more sore. I woke up one night around month 4 and the end of my finger looked like a ping-pong ball. I ordered some sterile scalpels and some got some Oxycontin. I took out the m31 the next day.

    It appeared to have had part of the coating worn off on one edge. I believe that is what caused the rejection.

    EDIT--
    There was a small "pocket" of yellow puss around the magnet, but most of the swelling in the finger was just normal blood. The puss pocket seemed to have an extra thick layer of skin around it and was very hard to cut without just pushing it aside.
  • Any thoughts on how the coating was damaged? Did you use a metal implement when orienting the magnet in the pocket?
  • glimsglims May 2015
    Also, do you have any pictures of the coating failure, and can you describe the pus, was it thick or thin? What colour was your swollen area? Blood in the area that isn't getting messed up from a coating failure sounds like mechanical trauma. Is there any other information you have?

    A coating failure ends with the magnet oxidizing and the resulting fail site usually gets a bit black from the oxidation. 
  • rjardinarjardina June 2015
    I got my m31 implanted on Jan 23, 2015 in my right ring finger and it rejected two months after that. It was done by a local piercer, with experience of implants. I believe he was very professional, personally never got anything pierced or tattooed for that matter. He walked me through all the steps and answered all my question, which was a big deal for me.

    Everything was cleaned to the point I felt I was at a doctors office. He iced my finger with a glove on, until it was numb. Ripped the glove off, cleaned it again, pierced it with a needle, checked it with a depth gauge. He didn't go far enough. He went over his piercing and rechecked the depth again. ( don't know how far he went. Would say about 10mm at a 45ish degree angle ) Then he pushed the magnet in, and used a bigger magnet to help get the m31 in has far as possible. Cleaned my figure again, and bandage it.

    I work has a commercial and industrial eletro-mechanic tech. With in a week I was able to feel; solenoids, transformers, my can opener at home and other coils too. But never a; laptop fan, microware or powerlines. With in a month after the installation my skin became thin and could see a pool of blood in my figure tip, and could feel the magnet floating in it. Or more precisely I could feel the magnet hit the walls of skin in my figure tip. and could even see the magnet through the transparent skin, when I held it above my head.

    At the six weeks point the pool went away and I couldn't feel anything magnetic. But I could move the magnet with pressure. I would push it down a couple times a day. I woke up at the two month mark and the m31 was poking out, waited a day trying to massage it back down, without any luck. The next day I went a head and removed it. It never bleed but puss did come out. I did have a huge hole in my figure about 12mm deep and 4mm at the widest. The m31 looks fine under a 25x magnifier.

    I do plan on getting it redone with a different m31 just to be on the safe side. I do have a tiny knot in my skin now but it looks fine, Is it a bad idea to get it in the same area??? And if not how long should I wait for it to heal? Probably going to get it in the same figure but opposing side but would like to get it in the same side.
  • glimsglims June 2015
    10 mm is almost half an inch. A 45 degree angle would punch straight into your meat. Technically, half an inch at 45deg would have probably gone through your finger. It's ok, eyeing measurements can be a little difficult

    The fact that there was blood makes one thing that this was a mechanical or implant technique issue. If it was a straight up rejection or an infection, there would have been pus.

    Cassox can explain this better than I, but it sounds like you may have just been punched a little deep. The magnet is supposed to be interstitial, not embedded. 

    I would suggest using a new location. Your finger will need more time to heal.
  • Dragon5Dragon5 August 2015
    OK so i'm very late to this, mostly because of a lack of  being up to date on the goings on in the forum ( my bad, and also is it just me or has the forum grown huge recently?) but i had an implant done in march at the first grindhack here's a link to the post : http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/842/for-cass.-pics-of-magnet-implant-finger-
     It became quickly evident that i was a dumbass. 
     so that's my rejection story
  • cyberlasscyberlass August 2015
    Sadly, didn't take notes/pics but as I recall...
    Back in Feb (2015), I got m1 implanted by local piercer who said she had done them before w/ few rejections. After two rounds of a piercing needle and repeated shoving of magnet she called it good and put a band-aid on it. My post-care instructions were basically "put some anti-bac on it tomorrow when you change the band-aid and treat it like a piercing". It started to heal, but got a pus-under-the-skin look a couple of days later. I lanced it and it was a thick light color (green?). Washed it with soap and water and then more anitbac/bandaid and waiting. The skin over the magnet site was white-ish and not healing up. Roughly a week later I could see the magnet peeking out. I texted piercer and was told that a tight band-aid might help. Tried that a couple days and then switched to a looser one, magnet came out while I was sleeping (still no idea where it is). 

    Rejection cause: Probably mix of how implant was done and bad post-care. 


  • AstraAstra August 2015
    Thought I might share my story for future implanters researching. I implanted 2 magnets around the 22nd, one in the index adjacent to the thumb, and one in the ring adjacent to the pinkie. The implants went pretty much the same except for my not suturing the ring finger because i tried and screwed up so many times. For a week I applied neosporin, steri-strips, and took some ibuprofen. Eventually I ran out of steri-strips and switched to band-aids and stopped taking ibuprofen. Around this time my hand started to dry up with skin flaking off in areas all over my hand. In late week 2 my ring finger started bulging out where the magnet is located, and the scab fell off. Right now it isn't fully out but it is still bulging considerably and i think the magnet will fall out in a week or so.

    UPDATE: My index and ring fingers still have obvious bumps on them, my ring more so. This is roughly 2 months post implant.
  • VanadiumVanadium August 2015
    I also had two implanted on the 22nd, one of them was done by @cassox and the other one was done halfway by me (I fainted) and finished by cassox. The one done by cassox looks perfect, the one that was started by me is also going through something that sounds similar to what's going on to yours, though my skin just started flaking and coming off within the past few days and the bulging only started around then too. The site of the implant had always been slightly raised and it started bulging the morning after I stopped wearing the steri strips. I sent cassox some pictures and described what was going on and he isn't 100% positive its rejecting, he's hoping its still just healing, and recommended I keep icing it and take an 800mg dose of ibuprofen every 6 hours. I've also gone back to wearing steri strips (cassox made sure to tell me not to wear them if they're keeping in moisture, but so far its dry) because I noticed the constant pressure seemed to help. So its possible our magnets might still make it? Of course I don't know how much yours is bulging out, it might be much more than mine, do you have pictures of it?
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight September 2015
    Bumping this so we can continue collecting data on rejections and their causes in one spot. 
  • garethnelsonukgarethnelsonuk September 2015
    Implanted mine in my left thumb using the scalpel method and superglue to seal the wound immediately after procedure.

    Was healing nicely for about 2 weeks, then I bumped the area on a knife while opening my dishwasher, a few hours later the wound reopened but I kept dressing it (always using chlorhexidine + phenol cream and wrapping with a plaster and rinsing with sterile saline and iso alcohol before changing).

    It looked quite red for a few days and some of the skin came off but I kept the pressure on with the dressings in the hope it'd heal up but sadly it was pushed to the surface (actually poking up out of the wound) and I decided it was best to remove it.

    By taking care with the antiseptics I never had any signs of infection so i'm confident it wasn't a coating failure and have stored it in a bottle of iso alcohol to reimplant after healing.
  • garethnelsonukgarethnelsonuk September 2015
    Just to clarify by the way: it was a bread knife in the dishwasher, so it was just raw physical impact, no fresh cuts or other trauma just a big impact that kicked off the rejection process.
  • CitrusBoltCitrusBolt September 2015
    I had my tragus done by Cassox at Grindfest. I removed the suture on day 4 and was continuing to ice it and dose ibuprofen. I thought it was looking decent, but today I saw that the magnet had been pushed out and was exposed to air. It slid right out without resistance when I went to remove it.
  • BirdMachineBirdMachine September 2015
    So. It looks like my finger magnet of a year might about to start (or has already started) the rejection process. Implanted by Cassox at last year's grindfest, and has been completely fine since.

    It's always had a small bulge, since my skin's a little thin. There are some days it'll be sore, but that's few and far between. Once a month maybe?
    No direct trauma, though I do things like handbalancing and cyr wheel. So there is some physical activity going on around it.
    No heat, no redness, no visible swelling.
    I noticed yesterday however that the skin above has started to peel. Which seems to happen to every magnet that eventually pops out.




    I'll keep monitoring this. Silver lining? Good chance to maybe catch a majority of the rejection process in data and images.
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight September 2015
    @BirdMachine Any change?
  • garethnelsonukgarethnelsonuk September 2015
    I've sadly managed to lose my m31 (literally - as in I don't know where it is), this is doubly annoying as dangerousthings is out of stock.

    Should anyone have a spare that they'd be willing to sell get in touch.
  • BirdMachineBirdMachine September 2015
    @TheGreyKnight no change, actually. The first layer peal is just about done.... next layer hasn't broken yet though. False alarm maybe? Fingers crossed.

    Eep! No spare here :( Had one, but it too was lost to the void mid transit somewhere.
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight September 2015
    Prior to the peeling at the implant site, have you applied a lot of force to that area? @BirdMachine
  • BirdMachineBirdMachine September 2015
    No  sudden, direct impact or trauma. However I do end up putting some pressure on there from handbalancing once a week. It's relatively minimal. No soreness lately, no discoloration, and no more layers of peeling :) Keeping an eye on it though, and will update if the next layer of skin breaks.
  • ZeitgeistZeitgeist September 2015
    So. I'm New here. I don't have any implant, but I'm planning to get a m31 in my left ring finger. Is there any Kind of "exercice" to reduce reject, or is it something random ? (I hope I've post my message in the good section.)
  • PrisPris September 2015
    I have a few bidy piercings and magnet implants. At first sign of rejection if you apply outside pressure with a plaster you can usually have success at preventing rejection. I have a lot of sensitivities to various plasters and i use a product called fixomul. Its a wound care dressing available at pharmacies. It is like an elastic cloth, so it breathes you buy it by a roll.or a meter. Its abiut 30mm wide and you cut it to size.
  • TorrentXTorrentX October 2015
    I had it reject twice, then it took on the third attempt. It was definitely user error on my part. Since it was a self implant. 

    Basically, it rejected due to not being deep enough. It HAS to be completely under the dermis, or it'll start hurting around 10 days, and reject a few days later. A good rule of thumb (or in this case ring finger). Is that if you can use it to pick up a paperclip, it's probably not deep enough. 

    Overall I consider it a good learning experience. It's currently been in for a couple months now, no signs of rejection.  No pain. And the only reason you can see it at all (barely noticeable), is because I have really small hands. 
  • AlternateAlternate October 2015
    I've had my middle finger M31 reject after about 6 months. It seemed to move while healing to the point where it was perpendicular to the finger, after which it gradually got more painful and moved towards the surface. I cut it out at that stage, as I learned from experience (with my ring finger) and that letting it heal out itself was annoyingly painful.

    No excessive knocks, etc. before the rejection happened, so I'm guessing it wasn't implanted deep enough initially.
  • BenbeezyBenbeezy October 2015
    My m31 rejected today. I had it in for a few months. I took pictures and documented the process and will be putting together a blog post later tonight that I will post up. took about 2 pictures a day for the last 3 or so day.
  • glimsglims October 2015
    Looking forward to your update Ben. That's a long time to have it and then have an issues.

    Of the M31s I've implanted, I've only had one rejection that I know of, definitely attributed to mechanical stress. 4 were in very small hands and there are no issues so far (one at 1year, 3 at 3 months). Haven't heard from others.

    Has anyone felt like we've come to  a conclusion on this thread or are we just repeating ourselves? I feel like moving this out of announcement status seems like a legit action. Thoughts?
  • ightdenightden October 2015
    not implanting the magnet properly, and not following proper aftercare seem to be the two most common culprits for rejection.
  • BenbeezyBenbeezy October 2015
  • fonix232fonix232 October 2015
    Hey guys!

    I seem to have a similar thing happening to Benbeezy here. Magnet was implanted over two weeks ago, and up until yesterday, it was perfectly fine.

    On Friday evening I had a little accident, reached into my bag, and my magnet finger was caught on the edge of a box. It wasn't sharp at all (it's a Samsung box with neat rounded edges), but the sudden impact was enough to cause some pain. I thought not much of it as I'm sometimes clumsy, and the pain went away quick. 

    However on Saturday morning I woke up to this:
    image
    image
    image


    I have followed aftercare instructions, and the implant was done by the most reputable body modder in Hungary (Gabor Zagyvai), who has done such procedure before. No complications happened up until now.

    How worried should I be? I'm going back to him tomorrow afternoon, but I would really like to hear some more opinions before.

    Icing it helped lower the lump a bit, but it came back a few hours after. And unfortunately I can't keep my finger iced the whole day and night.
  • BenbeezyBenbeezy October 2015
    @fonix232  your looks a lot larger than mine was. I would say poke it with a pin and see what comes out. if a ton of blood comes out then maybe you have some kind of internal bleeding or something. If anything else comes out then it infected and the magnet should come out. But from what I have seen, a rejection normally doesn't get that big large
  • glimsglims October 2015
    Yeah, that's pretty swollen for what you are describing. I second the stab it. With something sterile -_-
  • fonix232fonix232 October 2015
    Went to my piercer in the meantime, and he said not to worry. The lump went down in size considerably, and is not that painful any more (but is sensitive, not sure poking would be a wise idea).

    It's most probably just a burst blood vessel due to the physical strain it got when it got caught on the box. Especially as the colour seems to be not pus-like white-ish, but dark purple.
  • MattGuyMattGuy October 2015
    First I've got to say that my second m31 was done about 8 months ago bya  professional and has been perfect in every way. I can feel my laptop charger from a couple inches away(helped w/ troubleshooting laptop not charging, the cause ended up being a faulty outlet which made the charger feel erratic instead of smooth motion) and had no issues with rejection or healing. But...

    My first magnet rejected but I lost it almost immediately after removing it so don't have any pictures. Prior to implanting I looked it over with a small magnifying glass and didn't see any obvious scratches/dents/etc. But it was a magnifying glass, not a microscope, so take that with a grain of salt. It was my first procedure and I did it myself without anesthesia so I may have damaged the magnet during insertion although it was only touched by the plastic handle on a disposable scalpel. The placement and everything was spot-on but I didn't use sutures and the magnet ended up rejecting the same way it went in about two weeks after the procedure. I'd say it was the lack of sutures that caused the rejection except the edge of the magnet that was closest to the skin was covered in black something when I took it out. Basically my finger had made a pocket for the magnet except the skin never fully covered my magnet. Instead, the edge of the magnet was flush was the edge of my skin before I pulled it out (Imagine a CD after being ejected from a CD player, except not sticking so far out, but if I pushed the other side of my finger it WOULD stick that far out..that's how I got it out). It's possible that the edge got scratched from exposure to outside elements but was still close enough to being in my body that my body reacted and caused that edge to darken from..something biological..? In case you coating procedure changed, the rejected magnet came from the first batch from the biohacker pre-order special. The second magnet was from a later batch bought by the pro that implanted it.
  • bciuserbciuser October 2015
    For anyone who posted on this page, @MattGuy, @Benbeezy, @fonix232, @glims, @Alternate, @TorrentX, @BirdMachine, @garethnelsonuk, @Vanadium, @Astra,  @Cyberlass, @Dragon5, @rjardina, I have created a spreadsheet with all the information you posted, please correct it or add in additional information. For anyone who has had a rejection and not yet posted, please feel free to fill out the spreadsheet to the best of your knowledge or post here and I (or someone else) will add you in. Please fill it out one separate entry for each magnet you have had implanted. If your magnets have not rejected yet, please fill it out as well. Creating separate thread.

  • Dragon5Dragon5 November 2015
    just checked your spreadsheet. i love it.
  • fonix232fonix232 November 2015
    @bcuiser Updated my info.

    Also checking in. Two months after implant, my finger is still swollen. Only painful when over 20N force applied.

    Also from time to time, a small white circle emerges. Poking that with a needle is painless, and there's some pus (smell-less, very thin), but size of the bulge does not change. Within a day after poking it, the hole is healed.

    I also lost the magnetic sense. I believe it is due to scar tissue build up - the pocket was filled with blood after getting it caught on the edge of a box, and the pus is not nearly enough to fill the whole thing there, plus apart from the swelling, there's no other sign of inflammation, and as I said, it is only painful when a lot of pressure is placed on it (e.g. working out).
  • JohnOlsonJohnOlson January 2016
    I got them in each tragus last December or January. One of them has been bothering me for a few months now and looks pretty weird. I'm finally getting it cut out later this month.

    It looks bruised, swollen, and like it's moved a little bit. I don't know what caused it but I suspect it's because I generally sleep on my right side. It doesn't hurt, though it did for a while and was tender to the touch.

    It was implanted with a scalpel and had one or two stitches in it. Was also injected with some sort of numbing stuff prior to implantation. Same procedure on the left ear but it's fine.
  • TakrinTakrin January 2016
    Mine recently rejected shortly after implanting, ordered the pain management and the magnet from dangerous things, used plastic tools to insert it, sterilized everything with supplied solutions, since the pain management also came with some. after installing it, it was slightly sore for longer then 3 weeks, and about 5th week it started to peek out of the incision so I removed it, I planned on reimplanting it since getting it was a pain, and stored it in a plastic bottle filled with 90% rubbing alcohol to keep it sterile and to kill off any remaining germs, about a month later the alchohol turned into a rustic color and the magnet had rust growing on it. so guessing the coating was compromised. been trying to get few more magnets to attempt the implant again but its been out of stock for a bit...

    Not 100% sure but was thinking alcohol shouldnt hurt the titanium/ceremic coating so maybe the next few i will soak in alcohol for a month or so before implanting to make sure.

    also the picture is about 3 months after the rust started, i just kept it in the solution and it has grown a bit more but it originally looked like a volcano.

    image

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