Clone to RFID while still in injector?
  • Hey, first post here.   I have an xEM RFID with the ATA5577 125khz chip.   I'm attempting to clone a HID/125khz card to it.   Is it possible to do this while it's still in the Dangerous Things injector/needle (which I assume is steel?)    I'm not having any luck, and I'm loath to inject into my hand without first verifying I can clone to it and use it successfully.    I guess I can open the package and get it out or the injector, but was hoping to keep it sterileish in the meantime.
  • Usually the steel injector acts as a good shield, preventing you from getting it to work with regular reading equipment. Having said that, the shield is not perfect and it should be possible to construct a custom reader which should be able to access its data. Building your own reader requires quite some EE knowledge tho. Simply removing the tag is way easier.
  • cool, I'll just do that.  cheers for the confirmation!
  • Looks like my cloner doesn't like it.  Can't get a read off it, no matter how I orient it.  Got a proxmark 3 on the way now.  3rd time lucky, haha.  First cloner I got didn't read HID (even though it said it did).
  • @moliere I can't comment on the chips from DT, but in more general terms, yes, it is possible to read/write a chip while it is still inside the needle. But you will need a really good reader, most won't cut it, a proxmark3 will almost certainly not work. To read/write a implantable chip with a proxmark3 you need to swap the default antenna for one tuned for very small chips, and even then it's not great read range, will almost certainly not work through the needle.

    I use a custom built RFID reader/writer to verify all the LF implants I sell without removing them from the needle once they have been sterilised. 
  • Thanks for that info.   So what device do you recommend for a simple HID cloning to the naked xEM?   I note that you've got a HID cloner on Cyberise.Me, does that do the job fine?   I've already pulled it out of the needle now, so I'm not worried about that part.    While I do have the skills to build (but not design) my own reader/writer, I don't have an enormous amount of time to invest right now.
  • Which device really depends on how much you want to spend. Now that you've taken the chip out of the needle, you might get lucky and be able to write it with a stock proxmark3, or you could replace the antenna on the proxmark3 and it should work.

    The second option is the cheap hand-held cloner you mentioned, if you only need to clone HID cards, it should work, but write range is not great as it's designed for full size key fobs. (it works ok on my implant, but a couple of people with deeper implants had to take the plastic case off to get the antenna close enough)

    The final option is the MultiCloner, a device I've been working on for the last few months and finally finished last week. It's more expensive, but far more advanced than the cheap cloners, and tuned to work with implanted chips. It's the best option, but may be overkill for what you're trying to do.