Are matrix-like through skin ports/connectors possible?
  • If you have ever seen the matrix you'd know that in the real world they have thru skin plugs that let them interface with the matrix. Is that possible? can you have a port that connects to sub-dermal circuitry that pokes up through the skin? I'd imagine not because there would have to be an edge some where right? And that could lead to infection or things getting under your skin... right? Or am I wrong? I mean, if it was possible you'd probably want some sort of dust cover to keep debris out of the port, but I image you could do a lot with that sort of technology! I mean, one of the big hurdles I see with a lot of potential sub-dermal devices is the inability to simply and efficiently charge power hungry devices, and I imagine that you could do a lot more, like have nerve connected sensors that send data to external devices, like say, an experimental robotic prosthetic or for faster computer interfacing.
  • There are several threads on this topic already on the forum, but short answer is no, not with the current limits of technology.  
  • Unreasonably difficult and has not been done, but I think it is possible.
    Consider Intraosseous Transcutaneous Amputation Prosthesis which is currently in clinical trial stages of development. This involves a prosthesis attachment system that anchors to bone and crosses outside the body, through the skin.

    Read this: http://www.stanmoreimplants.com/itap-implant.php

    As stated here, the implant is designed in a way that takes inspiration from how deer antlers work. The implant has a porous surface that encourages soft tissue to grow on and into it, forming a seal and hopefully preventing skin from growing over the implant inappropriately.

    Given the hopeful outlook of that clinical trial, I think that it is not unimaginable that a transcutaneous plug implant could be made in the future. That said, I think it would be a delicate surgery beyond grinder skill level, there would be risks that might be seen as unacceptable weighed against lesser concerns than amputation, and the method I mentioned is kind of cutting edge immature medical technology and very inaccessible for that reason.
  • Oh hey, also the paper they cite in the above link happens to be available on pubmed if you're into that kind of thing.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100310/
  • Btw, it's actually pretty easy to deliver a lot of power across the relatively thin skin. Even the low-power variants of Qi can handle 5 Watt already. You can probably reach several hundred watts without too much engineering trouble. Question is where to put all that heat your implanted devices would generate.

    So, long story short: yes it is theoretically possible. But there are quite a bunch of issues to pull it off practically. There are better alternatives unless you need massive parallel direct neural interfacing (which you most likely won't )
  • less Matrix, more eXistenz:
    image
  • CassoxCassox May 25
    Actually, there was a project already done exploring this I believe. I'll try to find it but someone was playing around with hydroxyapatite on transdermals.
  • CassoxCassox May 26
    Ok, I can't find the thread but I'm pretty sure it was Chironex who made it. If I remember right it was a coating of hydroxy appetite and something else. The metal wasnt honeycombed or full of gaps like TAP, but the coating was. Maybe he'd be able to steer you in the right direction.
  • This thread? LINK Ya me and glims were working on that. Was based on chitosan, ECM and hydroxyapatite. It got put on the backburner so we could get our new place set up. Weren't you the one who implanted the test implant into his arm?

  • CassoxCassox May 28
    I'm not sure. I could of sworn I saw a video where you had it in someone for a week and then pulled it. Either way cool work.
  • Hmm, done some more looking about, and to my surprise it seems like a guy named Samppa has adapted the same deer antler study into a transdermal implant, based on listening to him speak on some youtube vids it seems like he uses the same sort of coating methodology as in the pubmed paper I linked above.

    image

    notice the similarities to the flange devised in the deer study:
    image

    One could imagine taking such a transdermal implant, a small/simple subdermal electronic device, and a low profile magnetic connector like pic related:

    image
    Roll it all into one package, and you could potentially devise a well-sealed, low profile, convenient to use implant that would have a reasonable expectation of working.
  • glimsglims May 29
    Yeah, that was pretty much the idea.
  • His implants don't work though. That coating is plasma coated on and it doesn't do any better than the control. The idea was that the hydroxyapatite would help encourage connection, not be the only thing the cells can connect to. You need a matrix for them to grow into. Hence the chitosan. I think most of this was discussed in that thread.
  • Examples of those implants failing? Would you also suggest that Stanmore is barking up the wrong tree with porous flange/HA, and that straight bar or non porous flange coated in chitosan would be more effective?

    Was this you guys as well? 
    Study cited in that video doesn't seem to directly address transdermal applications, but does seem to give insight on guided tissue regeneration.

    Funny enough Samppa commented on that video and seemed very critical. He seems to have a very, "I'm the only person who knows what they are doing on the planet" personality which is red flag in itself, but he does seem to report good success rates, and has had a number of those transdermal implants inserted in himself for quite a while at this point. The more info and potentially applicable studies, the better, in my opinion. Contradictions to his claims of success could be interesting if there is any material you'd recommend reading.
  • I love this place.

    Cassox: Wasn't there a thingy?
    Chironex: Yeah, this thingy. Didn't you stick it into someone?
    Cassox: I thought you stuck it in someone. Cool.

    Like... only on Biohack. ~3~

    Sorry for the interjection. Also, wondering if the skingun has any relevance in this, maybe? For seeding a matrix and local area with stem cells? :o

    Have been meaning to bring up the skingun in a thread... But work and UC has kept me pretty busy. ~3~ also, maybe a tiny bit lethargic.