Crazy thought. Benadryl anesthetic
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul December 2016
    Ok so I was watching a show and they mentioned Benadryl being mixed with saline to produce an anesthetic. After some googling I discovered a name...novocain also know as procain. Am I wrong that this could be a good solution for people with the inability to get ahold of lidocaine?

    @cassox any input on this?
  • chironexchironex December 2016
    There was a thread on here at one point where someone tested it. It worked but didn't last as long if memory serves. I'd have to dig it up, but it's on here somewhere
  • CassoxCassox December 2016
    There's a little info here. Incomplete but ok. So procaine isn't the same as diphenhydramine. Is that what you're saying?

    http://augmentationlimitles.ipage.com/?page_id=304


    So, yes. I'd say great find. Here's an article about it:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2923931/

    I was totally unaware that diphenhydramine could be used this way; however, there's still the problem of fillers. I actually have some injectable diphenhydramine around. They are available in sterile liquid vials for injection. This would be great if people could get them. But.. I think the injectable liquid form is available with prescription only. Oral forms are going to have a bunch of fillers and shit. I'm sure there's a way to separate it out but it might be more work then it's worth.

    So I guess this might be a good project for someone.. either identifying a source or figuring out a way to isolate. The reason they added saline was simply to dilute it. The article described the use of a 1% solution. The vials are something like 50% I believe. Very interesting.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul December 2016
    Oh I probably mis read the wiki I found on it or the wiki is wrong (I know right).

    Ya I think that if it is able to be separated out then some of the people who can source the good stuff may have a way now and that would be a huge help to people with tight restrictions. Most places, you can buy Benadryl with no problem just a drivers license.

    I actually just got my hands on some 1980s pond test kit chemicals and a microscope so I'm slowly gaining equipment to try and do stuff. Hopefully this is something I can at least mess with.

    @chironex I'll try and dig out the thread on Sunday when I'm not working thanks for that information. At least I know there's something.

    @cassox do the fillers have to actually be removed? What kind of effects might there be from a jerryrigged home batch?
  • decaldecal December 2016
    @Cassox Why wouldn't cold-water extraction be an option with the tablet or gel cap formulations? In the United States, the tablets are sometimes called "<Generic> PM", but sometimes mixed with acetaminophen.  There's a brand name called Unisom which is either 25mg or 50mg gel caps.  Unisom also has a product called "QuickMelts" that dissolve in liquid similar to Alka-Seltzer. 

    This isn't a suggestion to do anything illegal, but don't forget that Cocaine Hydrochloride can be applied topically..  Concerns about purity if procured from an untrusted source can be alleviated by filtering through cotton with a new/sterile syringe.  Also, there is a process for deriving pure Cocaine HCL from Coca leaf tea which is legal to import in limited amounts (in fact, a much larger quantity than one would need for this purpose.)  Don't forget that it's actually a Schedule II drug according to the FDA, because it's legally used as a local anesthetic in ocular and other types of surgeries.                
  • CassoxCassox December 2016
    If you take a look at the link above I do have a write up regarding the use of cocaine. It isn't really optimal.

    The most common fillers used include:
    candelilla wax, colloidal silicone dioxide, crospovidone, hypromellose, microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol, povidone, pregelatinized starch, starch, stearic acid, titanium dioxide, and talc.

    There is no way in hell I'd ever do any of these things intravenously.. but you might be ok with a subcutaneous injection. I mean, people grind up, dissolve, and inject opioids meant for oral injection all the time. It's not unheard of and often the ARE injecting IV. People are usually most concerned with filtering out solids. There are risks of course. I've seen some pretty nasty cellulitis in IV drug users. Overall, I don't see a benefit. Topical lidocaine really does work pretty well and injectable lidocaine can be purchased from Dangerous Things.

    I found a link where someone was trying to do an isolation..
    http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=31430
    The process being discussed isn't something I'd feel comfortable personally, but I'm sure someone smarter then I could finalize a process. Basically, if someone takes this on as a project and can give directions on safely and inexpensively isolating diphenhyramine for injection... then we'd have the Grinding community would have access to an unlimited amount of inexpensive anesthetic for implant. This would be huge. Who's up?
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz December 2016
    Here's the thread @chironex mentioned above. 

    http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/659/alternatives-to-lidocaine/p1


    In another link posted above https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2923931/ it says:

    "When topically applied, DPH has excellent anesthetic and antipruritic effects."

    I wonder if the Benedryl could just be used topically and not need to worry about making it injectable?
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul December 2016
    I definitely wouldn't consider iv for it but using it like the lidocaine which is just the shallow injection. Dangerousthings does have it for sale but I have seen a few occasions where people aren't able to get it where they live which is why this is a great possibility for making it themselves.

    I would definitely give this ago once I finish getting things to do it. Unfortunately that's a very slow process but hey at some point right.

    @birdhandz thanks for the links.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul December 2016
    From that thread it seems that you can use it with really minor modifications like a lidocaine. That's a very promising out come I wish doc was still active though.

    That article gave great information about it also.

    For sake of record here's a snipit of how to:

    For 1% DPH solution:
    50cc saline
    5%DPH

    remove 10cc of saline and discard. Add 10cc of 5% DPH and presto.

    So now the question is the removal of unwanted garbage in house hold Benadryl along with how much is needed to make one dose of 1% DPH.
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight December 2016
    Well, diphenhydramine is soluble in water: 3060 mg/L (at 37 °C) (LINK). Are anesthetic solution percentages given in percent by volume or percent by mass?
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul December 2016
    i believe it's volume.
  • actiiactii December 2016
    Can this work for eyes?
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul December 2016
    I don't know there isn't even a method laid out yet for making it yet.