I want a magnet implant
  • cocosmacocosma September 2016
    Hi guys! This is my first post here.I am from Romania and I want to get a magnet implant, but I can't get one because they don't ship in my country. I started to search local and I foud a site that sells coated neodynium magnets. The guy that sells is kinda close so I don't need to worry about shiping.
    So I found these:
    1. 1x0.3 mm parylene coated, N52 ( http://magnetiputernici.ro/discuri-neodim/Magnet-neodim-disc-1-x-0.3-mm )
    2. 3x0.3 mm parylene coated, N52 ( http://magnetiputernici.ro/discuri-neodim/Magnet-neodim-disc-03x0.3-mm )
    3. 4x2 mm gold plated ( Ni-Cu-Ni-Au ) ( http://magnetiputernici.ro/discuri-neodim/Magnet-neodim-disc-04x02-mm-aurit )
    I was looking fot the first one for my finger because I work a lot with my hands and is tiny and won't interferate with my actions.But I also think that is too small and I won't feel anything.
    The others two (only one)  I want to put them in "the RFID spot"
    They are kinda cheap($0.3 the gold plated one) and I don't know if they are good. I think that if i put them in salt water and let them there fot 2-3 weeks they will corrode if they aren't good.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul September 2016
    Dangerous things and cyberise can't ship to you? Is it a resident address that they can't do? Some people bypass that by have it shipped to their employment place. Just ask the place you work. I personally wouldn't pay for something that cheap that I would avoid it but if you have no other choice I'd get a parylene over gold just to be safe. 

    Yes you could do the salt water test I don't think it would take that long to start showing but that's not a bad thing to give it more time in a test.

    @alexsmith @amal @cassox will have more insight into all of this.
  • MTSMTS September 2016
    i hope Alex has some new ones soon. ever sinc ei signed up here i still havent gotten a magnet smh
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith September 2016
    I'll ship anywhere, the address/country is not a problem, the problem is making sure the magnets are safe, see the sticky status thread for the current testing status http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/1569/magnet-status 
  • cocosmacocosma September 2016
    is hard with shipping ( the cost ) and they are a little bit pricey ( 1/4 of my monthly salary ). and the parylene one's aren't too small/weak ?
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz September 2016
    If you can get several of the small parylene coated ones, you might want to try gluing one to your finger where you might want to implant one.

    Then, run around waving your hand around seeing if you can feel any magnetic fields.  A big magnet is easy to feel and can pull the magnet off your skin if the glue isn't dry.  The real trick is the electrical devices.  There is only one "wall wart" power adapter that I could feel with a glued on magnet.  A power cord had to be using a lot of electricity in order to feel anything.

    I checked the Wiki and it looks like the parylene isn't for long term implants.  Less than 1 year.  The gold also has a listing there.  Aside from the pin hole problem, it can be damaged easily especially when you are implanting it.  That means, even if it tests good, you can still mess it up on the last step.  Not trying to discourage you.  Just something to keep in mind and try to avoid.  Especially if your scalpel or any tools are magnetic.

    I don't have an implanted magnet (I'm on the waiting list) but I was surprised at how small of a magnet still gave me a feeling of magnetic fields.  It would be interesting to try gluing one of those TINY magnets on your finger and find out.  Bigger and stronger is usually better but, the tiny one might still provide a magnetic sense.  The less than a year thing doesn't sound real good but, it might not be real bad.  Another small cut and draw it out with another bigger magnet if I'm not mistaken.  The infection, if it does crack and break down, might be much worse but probably treatable.

    Even just gluing a piece of a broken magnet on my finger was enough to convince me I want this added sense so I'd be tempted to at least get some of the magnets and test them.  If they fail the tests, assuming you don't lose the tiny things, they should still work for holding holding notes on a metal refrigerator or door.

    One final note that maybe should be added to the wiki, these little magnets can be dangerous to swallow.  Keep these out of reach of everyone who might stick one or more in their mouth.  One might make it through the digestive system but more than one might pinch together important stuff and require surgery you can't do yourself to fix.
  • mmuyskensmmuyskens September 2016
    I believe @birdmachine has a parylene magnet she's been able to keep for some time now. Just like anything - just depends on the quality.
  • cocosmacocosma September 2016
    Cody(Cody's lab) was a lucky person. His magnet broke and after extraction he forgot a very tiny pice in there but dosen't got infected. I also found a epoxy coated one, a 4x4x2 mm
  • cocosmacocosma September 2016
    Is superglue biocompatible? Like , if I want to glue 3 of those 0.3 mm , so I get a 0.9 mm one is gonna infect?
  • rpykarpyka September 2016
    I understand you're trying to save money, but you are planning to implant something you'll have for a while... I'd highly recommend getting a single magnet instead of gluing multiple together.

    I don't know if superglue is safe or not, but if you're gluing them together you're creating pockets for bacteria and increasing your risk of infection/issues. Also superglue can break pretty easily with the right force applied, and if that were to happen to your implant then you risk the magnets rubbing against each other and wearing away the coating.

    Also, a note about parylene: Not sure where the thing on the wiki about parylene being good for only 1 year came from. I've had my parylene for well over two years with no issues, and expect them to last for a while still.
  • GroundblastGroundblast September 2016
    Superglue is biocompatible, and it can actually be really useful in surgery. I work in an addiction research lab, and I use 2-ethylcyanoacrylate (Krazy Glue) for securing internal sutures and 2-octylcyanoacrylate (Dermabond) to close incisions on rats. Here's a journal article about its use in humans: 

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3214492/

    But like rpyka said, gluing magnets together probably isn't a good idea. It's hard to get superglue to cure correctly between two smooth, flat surfaces. If you still want to try, use as little glue as you think you can. If you have too much glue "squeezing" out of the joint, it will seal itself off from the environment and stop curing at the middle of the joint. Really though, I wouldn't recommend it.
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz September 2016
    That's good to know that the parylene being good for longer than a year.

    @Groundblast, is Gorilla super glue the same thing?  I noticed that there are two kinds of "super glue".  One ethyl cyanoacrylate and the other Methyl cyanoacrylate.  Would either one be safe or only the ethyl type?

    Makes me wonder (not a suggestion), could a normal (cheap) magnet be coated with super glue and work?  What if you used a gold plated one and then coated it with super glue?  MAYBE, if the gold had pits or the super glue got damaged, the other one would save it from getting infected.

    Would the super glue be damaged by the sterilizing?  Does alcohol redissolve it?

    Sure would make this whole magnet implant idea cheaper and easier to get.  It seems like the demand is higher than the supply of good, precoated ones right now.  That might change soon though.  No idea how big of a waiting list there is or how many good ones in the batch.

    Might be worth a saltwater soak or some other test if you had a magnet and some super glue.  At least that's what it sounds like to me.

  • ightdenightden September 2016
    Make sure to post back after you implant a magnet covered in super glue/gorilla glue so we can all laugh at you and tell you we told you so.  Neither are rated for long term in vivo implantation.
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz September 2016
    Thanks for the encouragement.  I still need to get a bottle of vodka for sterilizing and pain relief and probably a new utility knife.

    This was mostly a joke but I still think it would be worth a saltwater soaking or other NON-IMPLANTED testing.

    I've heard that Parylene wasn't for long temp use and then hear of people who have had them for years so I don't want to dismiss the idea of something cheap and common working just because it sounds too good to be true.  I'd be willing to risk a 20 cent magnet and a cup of saltwater if/when I get some superglue.  I probably wouldn't implant it even if it tested good but I'd still like to find out using my own tests if it might be possible.

    Even good, proven safe implants can reject for any number of reasons so I would think the actual implanting test would be done AFTER the coating has passed less invasive tests first.
  • ZerbulaZerbula September 2016
    Please note that cyanoacrylate super glue is not tested to be, or designed to be, bio compatible.

    Please read the MSDS and ingredient list and research it's components. >~< Don't just try this off the handle.

    I will definitely be one if the first to vouch for it's usefulness externally... but very hesitant to talk about internal usage. :s
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul September 2016
    I second zerbula. Very good EXTERNAL. That doesn't mean it is good internal. Remember it is staying a lot longer then 3 days inside you.
  • tekniklrtekniklr September 2016
    It seems that salt water wouldn't be a very good test (well, it might show failure rather quickly) because your immune system actively attacks foreign objects and salt water isn't nearly that corrosive (despite being in and of itself highly corrosive).
  • ightdenightden September 2016
    Hes either retarded or trolling, to honestly think that vodka, a utility knife, and some super glue are safe and adequate tools to perform surgery on oneself.

    I'm leaning towards retarded, since he's not interested in listening to the advice of the forum members in regards to their health and safety.
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    I'll admit to both retarded and trolling.  The vodka and utility knife were a joke but I'm still not convinced about the super glue.  Probably retarded and just reading the article linked to before wrong but I want to do some more testing on my own.  I know super glue can be used for salt water corral propagation.  It's obviously not real toxic to the living corral or the other living things in the same water.  There are different formulations of super glue like gel and even dermabond, from that article:

    Ethically, although only 2-octylcyanoacrylate is approved by the food
    and drug administration of the United State of America for use to appose
    skin lacerations, results from some experimental studies have shown
    that cyanoacrylate is not as toxic as it was initially thought to be;
    hence it is safe.[9,13,37]
    It will therefore be necessary for this substance to undergo standard
    experimental and clinical trials aimed at certifying it fit for use in
    anastomosis

    and:

    The use of cyanoacrylalate presents a possible technique for the future
    management of urological, vascular, gynecological, general surgical, and
    some neurosurgical anastomosis in humans, which is cheap, available,
    simple, and convenient. It may probably be a good alternative to
    microsurgery, and with further development in the area, this method may
    probably be economically, socially, culturally, and ethically acceptable
    in the future.

    Sounds like I'm not the only "retarded" thinker out there unless I am reading this wrong or the article is fake.

    @tekniklr
    What would be a better test for the coating?  
  • ightdenightden October 2016
    The thing is, even if its a joke some people might believe it and go out and seriously injure themselves.
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight October 2016
    Putting aside the issue of whether or not superglue is biocompatible, coating 1 or more magnets in it will be a pain. Probably not unlike the process cassox used for his dental resin-coated magnets. You'll either have to spend hours working carefully with a dremel to polish and grind down excess coating, or you'll have a surface that's very friendly to bacterial growth, or a coating so thick that you lose a lot of magnet strength. 

    As for testing said coating, using a magnet you do not intend to implant, I'd probably go through the coating process, then test for any leaching of carcinogenic compounds, like solvents. Probably leave it to sit awhile in very salty water. Examine for coating degradation. Then use something Acidic, like vinegar. Leave for a few days to a week. Examine for degradation. And lastly, leave it for awhile in some bleach. If it doesn't change from its original appearance, doesn't shatter, and hasn't become significantly weaker structurally, it probably will survive in the body in the short term. That doesn't mean it won't get rejected. Just that it won't get degraded.


  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    That was the exact process I was/am planning to use to coat the magnet with the glue,  I haven't tried it yet so I don't know how much excess glue would need ground down.  That might kill this idea right there.  I plan to use parchment paper to keep the glue from sticking the magnet to anything while it dries.  I'm not positive that will work.

    The dental resin might not cost much more.  I never tried it but I would expect the glue to be much thinner and maybe easier to finish.

    That sounds like a good test but, according to the wiki, the TiN coated magnets would fail the bleach test.
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight October 2016
    Bleach is probably overkill. The real thing you'll have to deal with is overheating the magnet. I've worked gems using a dremel before, and they'll easily get hot enough to burn you in a short period of time during the polishing phase alone. Frying the magnet wouldn't take much more. Also, you'll want to let your coated magnets sit in the sun and saltwater after you finish polishing them to leach any nastiness out of the resin. Also, another problem you may encounter without a proper rigid mold: Superglue likes to foam and bubble. Not a lot, but it does. Bubbles are very very very bad. 
  • Dragon5Dragon5 October 2016
    @Birdhandz that highlight is killing my eyes XD please at least change it to a neutral color :X
    such as            this   or    this 
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    I removed the highlighting.  I didn't see a way to set the quote apart from the rest of the message and picked the wrong color.

    I'll probably still try coating one as soon as I get some super glue but I'll probably wait for the TiN coated ones to actually implant.

    Any polishing would be done by hand so heat shouldn't be an issue but bubbles wouldn't just polish out.  There's probably a good reason why nobody coats their magnets in superglue.
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith October 2016
    Just caught up on this thread. I don't want to encourage the use of super glue as an implant coating, _but_ it's not the _worst_ thing out there. I'd never use it myself, but it is used in place of sutures in some situations. If done well it would probably protect an implant a for a limited time, though still reject eventually.

    Still, if at all possible I'd suggest 1) use a long term in vivo safe coating such as TiN or silicone 2) at least use a coating which is approved for short time implantation such as parylene or dental resin.
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    @AlexSmith

    I'm pretty much talked out of trying to implant a magnet coated in super glue but still might try coating one just to see how it works.  I hadn't thought about the bubbles or any "foaming" reaction of the glue. 

    I am assuming your TiN coated ones should be available probably in a month or two and, aside from the cost difference, there will be no reason to consider alternatives.  No reason except just wanting to know what other coatings MIGHT work.

    I think the article linked before stated that there are different weights of "super glue" :

     The physical properties of the glue differ based on the molecular weight
    of the chemical. Even as the low molecular weight ones are more rigid
    and fairly more toxic, the higher molecular weight substances are
    stronger, more pliable, and less toxic.[3,4]

    and :

    The adhesives with lower molecular weights produce a rigid and patent
    region of anastomosis, while the higher molecular compounds produce a
    consistency close to the normal tissue.

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