Caffeine substitutes or replacement
  • Xaion27Xaion27 September 2016
    Currently looking for something to replace some of the caffeine i intake.
    Currently looking at green tea. Cant find solid articles though. Any substitutes would be appreciated as im getting headaches if I dont have any and I only have 1 or 2 cups per day
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul September 2016
    The make caffeine pills that you could probably work out an amount of caffeine per cup and pill to equate out or ween off. Also green tea does have caffeine. My suggestion for caffeine withdrawals would be just pop some ibuprofen or you favorite migraine pill and stop drinking it for the few days. Then switch to something with less caffeine and drink it over longer periods of time to not have it build up as much.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe September 2016
    Caffeine like as a drug? There are a million of more pontent stimulants but also more addictive....
  • JohnOlsonJohnOlson September 2016
    Adrafinil
  • TheDiabeticGMTheDiabeticGM September 2016
    Caffeine is going to be your best bet as far as common and cheap things which give you a minor euphoria,stimulation, concentration, focus, and just generally makes everything smoother and easier.  There are other options of course but it might help to know exactly why you would like to stop using Caffeine @Xaion27.

    Is your goal to stop getting headaches?  And are you sure that the headaches are related to the lack of Caffeine directly and there is not another possible culprit that the Caffeine was masking?

    This information would still be helpful but there are various broad places that we can start.  Another of the worlds most popular drugs is Nicotine and it does have stimulant properties in and of itself, some which lots and lots of people find pleasurable, but as you seem to dislike Caffeine headaches I would not recommend you pick up a smoking habit as the side effects associated with that are manifold and many times worse I am told.

    I am going to assume that this would be something that you would like to use on a daily basis not just occasionally since you are looking to try something which will replace your daily Caffeine.  Due to the frequency with which you would be taking this substance we would want to focus on things which have a low risk of negative side effects and a low risk of physical addiction so strong stimulants from the Amphetamine family, such as Adderal, and Desoxyn are right out (even though those would have been harder to get anyways).

    What @JohnOlson said is actually a good idea and what I would say is the best place to start.  There is a class of drugs called Eugeroics, but which are more commonly referred to as wakefulness-promoting agents.  They are usually given to people who do night shift work or who just general have problems staying awake, and are one of a variety of treatments used to combat Narcolepsy. 

    There are three drugs that are well known and which are commonly prescribed and these are Armodafinil, Modafinil, and Adrafinil, more commonly known by the brand names Nuvigil, Provigil, and Olmifon.

    All of these substances work in a parallel way to typical stimulants, such as Caffeine, striving to help you stay wide awake and fully functional without being too pushy.  They generally do not even inhibit ones ability to sleep the way that stimulants can.  

    These chemicals work so well that Modafinil, perhaps the most well known of the three, has been approved by the U.S. AirForce as a "go pill" that pilots can take to help them stay awake on long and dangerous missions.  I thought that was pretty cool and speaks to their efficacy.  

    While the exact mechanisms behind the chemical action of these substances remains unknown it has been shown that the potential for addiction, and negative side effects, even when one takes a massive overdose, are extremely low to non-existent.  

    Eugeroic drugs are definitely something that would be worth looking into and would likely be a perfect replacement for daily Caffeine.  There is only one caveat, however: At least in the U.S.A. you need a prescription to get any of these. 

     It shouldn't be crazy hard to get them prescribed, especially if you Doctor listens to you and is prone to helping you achieve your goals and get what you want, but, again, there are no guarantees when it comes to this sort of thing.  In lieu of this one niggling and annoying fact I would like to present you with one more option which is almost as good: Ampakines.

  • TheDiabeticGMTheDiabeticGM September 2016

    Ampakines are the sort of chemicals which are most often talked about on sites such as ours, they are Nootropics, also known as smart drugs and cognitive enhancers.  Ampakines in particular, are some of the best known of the Nootropics, this group includes all Racetams, drugs like Piracetam and Aniracetam, which are perhaps the two most often talked about Nootropics. 

    Basically what all of these drugs are supposed to do is to help clear all of the cobwebs from your brain, give you a better ability to focus by fine tuning your mental capacities until they are quick as lightning.  Their exact chemical action is also somewhat mysterious and they have various and multiple effects, some of which vary a little depending on which chemical you are talking about but in general, as per the moniker of "Cognitive Enhancer" they are really supposed to make your brain function better.  

    The effects of Racetams are many, but the effect that we are interested in for our purposes here is the fact that all of this mental revving not only increases function but pliability and speed, meaning that, in general, these drugs can act as wakefulness-promoting agents as well.  Whilst this is not their primary effect it is something that they have also come to be associated with to a lesser extent.  

    Racetams are able to be purchased over the counter as well as on the internet with no prescription required.  I think that they might be easier to get on a regular basis and they have the additional effect of overclocking your mental pathways in general while helping to keep you up and energized.  Racetams are additionally known to be quite safe and info on Piracetam and Aniracetam should be fairly easy to find around biohack.me and the internet at large. 

    Both Modafinil and Piracetam (or Aniracetam) seem to best fit what you are looking for in a Caffeine replacement and have the least negative side effects and highest ease of access out of all other potential candidates.  Do a little research on all of 'em and go for it!  

    If you do actually try to permanently replace daily Caffeine with a regimen of any of these substances please do report back on your results.  I find stuff like this direly fascinating, hence, the novel^.  lol.  Sorry about that btw.   : 3 

    tl;dr: Modafinil (or other drugs in that family) or Piracetam/Aniracetam are the most likely candidates to give you the effects you are looking for if you were to take them daily.

  • Xaion27Xaion27 September 2016
    Im in the uk what is current legal status of these drugs?
    I used to use noopept but i didn't think that there was much effect. Are there any serious trials that could be done. i was stacking noopept with citicoline modafanil sounds like what im after and probably the safest.if you know of a reliable source (and id prefer to stay within the realm of legality) I'll try it!
     I do agree it is very interesting. i was previously taking 15mg of noopept and i think it was 300 mg of citicoline.
  • rolalrolal September 2016
    in the UK anything with a psychoactive effect that isn't food or part of a specific list was made illegal as part of the blanket ban on legal highs. I'm not completely sure of the specifics but i know for certain that racetams are illegal now. That's not to say that the police care about them, but it is what it is.

    L-theanine is commonly taken with caffiene to negate some of the drawbacks, but i think this is limited to jitters and stuff like that, probs worth looking into. (L-theanine is taken from green tea, and so it's legal within the UK)
  • TheDiabeticGMTheDiabeticGM September 2016
    I actually looked into the legal status of Racetams in the UK and it appears that your "Blanket Ban" only applies to physical stores and allows people to order Aniracetam, Piracetam, and all the other Racetams right off of the internet so long as they are not purchasing in bulk and do not sell any, i.e, so long as it is for personal use and comes from another country.  I am not from the U.K. so I could be wrong, and I advise you to double check this, but you should be fine to order however much you would like so long as it does not go into the Lb's range, lol.

    All of these things that I have been suggesting should have a much more obvious effect than the Noopept did, although, with all substances, the way it effects the user tends to be quite subjective.  If you had an issue with Noopept doing very little then you might want to try Aniracetam as it is supposed to be stronger and more effective than Piracetam and Noopept does operate via similar mechanisms.

    Look into it, double check the laws, and then find yourself a good supplier and a stack (you don't have to stack if you don't want to, I probably won't when I get around to it) that suits you and go for it! : )
  • Xaion27Xaion27 October 2016
    actually just any reputable suppliers
    UPDATE: i ordered them and will make another post about my experience.
  • katzevonstichkatzevonstich October 2016
    I've never had any luck with getting caffeine to work on me until I started pairing it with L-theanine on my doc's recommendation. I don't know how it all works, but adding taking L-theanine makes it so I finally feel what everyone else does, even when I just drink a soda or something else with lower caffeine. I do have an armodafinil scrip, so that's my regular stimulant use.

    In the past, guarana worked well for me, though it's been ages. Lately, I found a couple teaspoons of kratom in some hot water with milk and sweetener have kept me awake and peppy on those days I don't get enough sleep, without crashing after. Though that's a whole other barrel of monkeys that you may or may not want to deal with.

    I can't recommend U.K. sellers since I've only purchased in the US, but powdercity.com (and their sister site nootrostop.com) have always been good to me for racetams and other supplements.
  • decaldecal October 2016
    Based on my experience, I doubt you could use it as a permanent substitute, but if you just want something temporarily to help your caffeine tolerance back-off then you could try Huperzine A.  Just make sure you start off low and slow cause it's easy to overdo. 
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    I used to drink 2 or 3 liters of mountain dew every day but quit drinking anything with caffeine due to stomach problems.

    The withdrawal headaches do go away after a couple/few days without any caffeine.

    I bought a TDCS device (you can build your own cheaper) and it does seem to give me some of the effects that the caffeine did.  I had stopped using the device for a couple weeks or more but just hooked it back up this morning and it still gives me the same effect.  No shakes but more energy and better able to focus.

    Might not work the same for everyone but, once you have the device, the only cost is a little bit of salt water and a 9 volt battery.  That and the time to use it.  I can usually feel the effects in just minutes but 15 minutes to half an hour is a normal "dose" with longer lasting effects.

    I did try guarana many years ago.  I think it was sold as a natural diet pill.  They were huge pills and I think the active ingredient is still caffeine.  They caused a lot of "shakes" but really increased energy and focus.  Building up a tolerance was a problem if used regularly and the "crash" was pretty bad when I quit taking them.
  • BoboTheEpicBoboTheEpic October 2016
    @Birdhandz Does the 'up' last as long/feel the same as a standard caffeine hit? Any headaches/itching from the treatment?
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    @BoboTheEpic

    The effect is hard to explain and probably different for everyone.  I'm not fully convinced it isn't at least partially a placebo effect but it seems to work the same each time I try it. 

    The effects I get from placing the anode (positive electrode) above my left eye around the temple and the cathode (negative electrode) on my upper right arm are an increased ability to concentrate or focus on a task and an increase in both energy and mood.

    It is not exactly like caffeine and I can't really tell how long it lasts.  I started out using the device a couple times a day around a half hour each time.  I cut back to once or twice every couple days and now only use it a couple times a week.

    I'd guess the most noticeable effects fade in an hour or two but it doesn't feel like I NEED to use it every day anymore to keep from getting depressed or too lazy.

    As far as physical feelings, there is normally a slight tingling or itchy feeling under the electrodes but not too bad using sponge electrodes dampened with a mixture of 1/4 tsp table salt and a 1/4 tsp baking soda per cup of water.

    There is often a slight metallic taste as well as a flash of light when the device if first turned on or turned off.  Sometimes there is a cooling feeling in my forehead originating from the anode.

    I can usually feel the stimulating effects within minutes but continue using the device for at least 15 minutes.

    I did try reversing the polarity of the electrodes one time and haven't wanted to repeat that experiment since.  It felt more like a depressant (alcohol) effect and my ability to stay focused was bad enough to need to turn the tv off.  I couldn't keep my mind from drifting long enough to understand what was happening on the television.  I assume, whatever region of the brain I had been stimulating and encouraging to fire was now being turned off and possibly allowing other regions to take over.

    Last thing I noticed was, if it doesn't seem to be working as good as it first did, try a fresh battery.  I accidentally left the device turned on one time and, after I replaced the battery, the original effects returned.

    I never got any headaches from using the device but others have reported actual burns to their skin so be careful if you try it.  It shouldn't be painful at all.  Maybe not what you would call a pleasant feeling (tiny pin pricks) but it shouldn't hurt.  If it does, stop using it and figure out why.  If the itchy feeling gets too bad, I will wiggle the electrode around or add a little more saline solution to the sponges and help spread the current over the whole surface of the electrode.  As the electrodes dry out, they start to sting.  They should be just shy of dripping wet.
  • BoboTheEpicBoboTheEpic October 2016
    Woah. Thanks for the detailed info! Very interesting that reversing the electrodes seemed to reverse the state change. I struggle with bursts of  depression multiple times a week so I'm thinking something like this could really help me out in that respect. I only need the effects to last a few hours every few days. I'll be sure to check out a few TDCS retailers.
  • BirdhandzBirdhandz October 2016
    @BoboTheEpic

    I bought my TDCS off Ebay but you could build one much cheaper if you can solder and have a few cheap parts.  The one I bought came with elastic strapping and electrodes but I ended up using cut pieces of sponge between the included electrodes and my skin because the ones included were more painful and I didn't want to risk burns.  The sponges also work (with enough saline solution) through hair.

    I had to repair the device I bought when I broke the wire and it only has 2 tiny surface mount parts controlling the current.  It does have a battery case with a built in switch and a bag to put everything in so I don't regret buying it but I did get some parts to build my own and have tried the homemade version while temporarily built on a breadboard and it worked just as well and I plan to add more "bells and whistles" or at least an LED to indicate power on and a way to change the current instead of just a fixed 2mA setting.

    Here's a link to my thread about this device.

    http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/1673/tdcs-questions

    There are pictures of the kit I bought and schematic diagrams of some circuits to build your own.

    Looks to me like a very minimal parts list would be:

    (1) LM334z current regulator
    (1) 33 ohm resistor (for 2mA setting)
    (1) 9 volt battery and a connector
    (2) electrodes with wires
    optional switch and indicator light


  • decaldecal October 2016
    Interesting.. I've got a Thync here, but haven't experimented with it a whole lot yet.  Would that also be considered a TDCS device?

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