Implanting Soon, a few questions
  • Hello everyone, it is a pleasure to join this community!

    Ever since I first heard of magnet implants I knew I wanted to get one, and I will be implanting mine in a week or so. I wanted to quickly detail my procedure in the hopes that if I am doing anything wrong, or there is a better way, one of you can kindly let me know. I have read through the wiki and some of the forums to familiarize myself with the procedure, and purchased this magnet (http://www.gaussboys.com/store/index.php/d04010g-n52.html) as well as the necessary surgical supplies to implant it. I have preformed surgery on myself before so I am fairly acquainted with the process, and I feel comfortable with implanting my magnet. I will put it in the inside edge of my left ring finger, ideally about half way through to sit the magnet in the middle of the finger. Additionally I will use butterfly closures to seal the wound.

    I plan to get my magnet plated in rhodium in addition to the gold, as most jewelers are able to do this (a standard for white gold rings) and I think they wouldn't mind plating a magnet. I choose rhodium because it is much more rigid and solid than gold, and it is also an inert and bio neutral material so shouldn't have any problem in my body. However if I cannot get my magnet plated in rhodium I plan to implant it anyway.

    I will also test several magnets for implant in a strong saltwater solution, in order to make sure the coating is intact.

    That aside, my questions are:
    Will butterfly closures suffice to seal the wound? Or should I also use superglue? My concern with superglue is that it prevents the wound from breathing which will seal in any bacteria infecting the wound and prevent the body's natural reaction of pushing them out.
    Is rhodium safe for implantation in the body? I can't find much information about this. I have no metal allergies or anything else that makes me think it would be unsafe.
    Will the rhodium coating process demagnetize the magnet significantly? I know that the solutions used are heated but I am not really sure to what degree (though some sources say only 50C). I do not know at what temperature the magnet will begin to become demagnetized.
    If I can't get the magnet plated in rhodium, is it safe to implant it with only the gold coating? The coating layer is, per specification, 20 microns thick and I will test the coating in the saline solution. I will also be very careful when handling the magnet before the implant, not allowing it to come into contact with metal.
    Is the placement of the magnet (N/S) important? I figure it doesn't matter, but I am not really sure.

    Thanks for reading, I will update with how my procedure goes and some pictures. I might even make a video! 
    Until then, greetings from Germany!
  • JordygordyJordygordy July 2016
    the typical first placement site for magnets in the in the ring finger of the non-dominant hand, facing towards the pinky finger, its out of the way and not used as much, but i suggest putting some tape or something on your finger just to get used to it.

    as for rhodium coating and plating process @cassox maybe able to help with that. thats not my domain.

    and i wouldn't recommend using a butterfly closure alone. i would recommend using stitches, practice suturing things with only one hand. get good at it so when you actually do it you don't end up stuck with hole in your finger and a bloody magnet. @cassox could do it for you if you wanted. 

    heres my post about my first magnet implant. let me know if you have questions 


    http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/1498/first-m31-impant-experience-#Item_16
  • JordygordyJordygordy July 2016
    also, im not sure saline is or saltwater is the best solution to test coating integrity. i would look into that more. you would want something that has some sort of indicator to make sure the coating is intact on the microscopic level. again, not my domain. im more into cutting people open and shoving things inside, not the process of making things to shove inside of people lol 
  • JordygordyJordygordy July 2016
    one last note: i messed up with my title on my post, i didn't get an M31 i got a paralyene coated magnet. opps. i was new when i got it put in and didn't realize the difference. 
  • So gold is OK.
    It's not the "gold standard" and the saltwater will work it's what a lot of them are tested in. Thing is you need a microscope to see if there is anything wrong with it otherwise you would need some kind of indication method.

    I believe 50c is ok but I'm not very versed in the C scale. The big thing is dont put it above boiling. But again cassox would know better.

    Avoid all metal with just have gold. Maybe even consider coating it (after testing) in a medical epoxy resin thing (sorry blanking on the name).

    N/S is a bit of a debate. Some say you can tell the difference some say it's in their head. Fact is that the magnet will shift and move until it finds a spot and heals into place so it will likely change no matter what you do.
  • ZerbulaZerbula July 2016
    I've heard that 40c is completely safe. I'm pretty sure 60c is completely safe. 100c is a no go ideally. But you should okay, I've heard of rhodium being used. ^^

    Au by itself I would discouraged. Not because it doesn't work, it's safe. But it's among the most fragile of choices... I personally prefer to overengineer something beyond specifications than just meet them, in case it needs to put up with stress beyond what's expected routinely, i.e. an abrupt impact. :o

    I did some evaluation on adhesives versus sutures a while ago... Would suggest using glue over no glue if all you're using is a butterfly. You want to keep those edges really stable and will anchored, because the body is going to try to push that little guy out, and mechanical stress will make it fail much easier. :s

    Would love to see vids. Welcome in! :D
  • If I can get the magnet plated in rhodium than testing shouldn't be a problem as the coating will be thick and solid enough as is, but what sort of indication method are you referencing @Meanderpaul? Is there some sort of solution I can make to check if there is any weakness in the coating?
    Thank you all for your help!
  • Also, how bad is it exactly if the coating breaks? To my understanding, it is simply painful and the magnet needs to be cut out. Is this correct?
  • AerisAeris July 2016
    @Masterjasper

    From what I can understand, you could end up with pretty bad poisoning as NdFeB magnets contain things you do NOT want going around in your body.
  • ZerbulaZerbula July 2016
    If the coating were to be compromised, you should extracted as soon as possible. Heavy metal poisoning, which is toxic. But it's not like instantly fatal. Still, the less it's exposed to you the better. :d

    One of the more common tests is the gravimetric test, it calls for exposing the magnet to a solution that reacts with the nickel layer under your rhodium and Au layers, thereby exposing a failed coating. ^^

    A very basic solution you can make with literally be super salty water, let that sucker sit in there for a week. If anything corrodes, imagine what your body will do to it. D:
  • I don't know of any specific solution. I'm not exactly the most chemically versed person but I would do some research into things that react with neodymium. I'm sure there is something that's out there.

    I was simply seconding that part from a previous post. Perhaps some one more chemistry based can help with that one. The usual method is a microscope and salt water.

    I'd test the gold only first and coat after. That way you know if the rhodium does fail you still have the gold.
  • Once you implant, let us know how those magnets are! I'm shopping around right now and I certainly like the price of those.
  • I've got some friends in the chemistry department at my local Uni, I will try to get myself a coating that reacts with the nickel. However, I just looked a bit more closeley under the magnet specifications from Gaussboys (http://www.gaussboys.com/store/index.php/magnet-information/ndfeb-grades-coatings.html) and they say the "Gold" coating is Ni+Cu+Au, does this mean the coating is alloyed? If so, it is not pure gold on this magnet and definitely not implantable as is. Do you guys think I am right in assuming this coating is alloyed? Otherwise it might be layered, with pure gold on the outside... But I kind of don't think so, esp. considering the price of the magnet.

    Hopefully I can get the magnet rhodium plated. I will find out in a few days and update with what I plan to do before the procedure. Thanks again everyone for the help.
  • Remember you are most likely going to be at the price of an actual implant grade magnet by the time you finally get it to the stage of implantable. You most definitely will be getting what you pay for when you do this.

    If you wish to cut corners Home Depot, lowes, Michaels all sell these appealing priced neodymiums but you will need to buy a bunch till you find one that works.
  • Yeah, especially with the rhodium plating it's going to put the cost up there. I already ordered these magnets so I'll be implanting one of them, it's just a question of how I will be coating it. I think rhodium is my best bet at this point, even though I'm not 100% sure about its saftey for implantation. But that puts the cost about the same as if I ordered a magnet designed for implant (ie. From dangerousthings.com) as far as I know. I'll check with the jeweller on Saturday or Monday this week and let you guys know how it goes.
  • ZerbulaZerbula July 2016
    Many many many NdFeB magnets have Ni-Cu-Ni layering to protect the core. 80% It's just most likely layered. ^^

    I'm not sure if the Au layer is pure 24-karat, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was electroplated. Remember, even if it is pure gold, it's still a very tiny amount.