Has anyone shot yourself with Capsaicin?
  • opiopi July 2016
    Have you played with Capsaicin... Like injecting it intravenously? For what? And what happened?

    I'm interested in its effect on systemic pain nerve degeneration to become a pain-free-forever cyborg, but I also heard it can give you a sense of "high". So yeah, for recreational or whatever other purposes, I'd like to hear your adventures with Capsaicin! :)

    Some stuff I think I know about Capsaicin:
    - desensitize TRPV1 nerves by destroying them
    - better to inject intrathetically to minimize systemic side-effects while killing main spinal pain nerves
    - systemic temporary side effects include bradycardia, apnea, body temp decrease

    Since I can't inject in my own spine, the most practical way seems to be into a vein.
    My hypothesis is that if I inject very little each time, it will affect the heart and respiratory functions minimally, and some Capsaicin will end up in the CSF, killing a few pain nerves there, and if I repeat this many times, I can eventually get rid of most pain nerves.
  • Arkcon10Arkcon10 July 2016
    you do realise the way it destroy's them is by overloading them with horrible amounts of pain stimuli? as in physical pain. as in injecting that stuff would be a thousand times worse then getting sprayed with it, and i say sprayed with it because thats the same stuff in pepper spray.and in pepper spray its only held within 0.1 to 0.3 % of the actual spray while the rest is usually water. anything more will give you a chemical burn, and besides unless you actually burn away your nociocepters (pain nerves) with this stuff your still gonna feel pain. just a fuck ton of it while injecting this stuff. this isin't even the hottest chemical on the scoville scale by the way. Resiniferatoxin is, and you can't even put a percentage of that into pepper spray its just that hot. and not to mention the other side effects of practically melting your respiratory system as it falls to pieces on you, very likely killing you in the process. infact since you can't dilute this stuff with water and inject it into the bloodstream (pure water doesn't play well with blood) that means you'd probably just die from the pain of your entire vein line being chemically burned, as well as the injury's caused by, well being chemically burned as it reaches the areas you wish to hit (the csf) 

    just don't do this please
  • ightdenightden July 2016
    plz post update from the hospital/grave thx
  • CassoxCassox July 2016
    I'm sure you've read this journal article already:
    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/18/21/8947.full

    It's local not systemic but still resulted in permanent changes. After reinnervation, sensation was something like 75% of what it had been previously.

    This one is IV administered:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3769402
    Basically, it resulted in coughing. I only read the synopsis but it appears that vital were unaltered at the dose used.

    You talked about intrathecal administration. Where did you get this from? A couple things to consider.. if injected IV can it cross the BBB to have a central effect? If so, what concentrations are needed for this to have substantial effect and will this induce to great a peripheral effect? Also, the receptors, TRPV1, are associated with a lot of different functions other then pain mediation. TRPV1 is found in high concentrations in the hippocampus and has a role in memory. If I were you, I'd stick to local administration at the sites you want numbed. Even if you succeed on a systemic level.. I think you'd have a number of unintended effects.
    Think of that weird rush you get when you eat hot food. Hot, sweaty, but also good, right? TRPV1 receptors are also involved in the endocannibinoid system. So you'll certainly change how the body responds to pain, but you're also playing with apetite, mood, and memory. Be careful.
  • CassoxCassox July 2016
    Ok, suggestion.. From what I've been reading, it appears that adequate concentrations of capsaicin applied topically will lead to degeneration of both sensory and autonomic neurons in skin. I believe the nadir for sensation is like 6 days of exposure and for autonomic function its like 16 days.

    So you could apply a topical capsaicin to a region of your body every 6 hours or so for like a week. After this, you should experience the lack of pain you're seeking. The nice part about doing it this way is that the nerves will regenerate after you stop applying the capsaicin. It may take a while and there is some concern about a decrease in the sensitivity... but this is totally doable.
    Let me know if you're serious. I'd like to see your write up and I'll help with design etc. if you'd like.
  • opiopi July 2016
    Thanks @Cassox ! That's so nice of you :) I'd appreciate any kind of help in designing this experiment! ultimately I would like this to be for the entire body, and not local... but yea...it's probably a good idea to test locally first, huh?..

    This is the one about intrathecal Resiniferatoxin (sorry, not Capsaicin, but similar) for bone cancer pain in dogs:
    http://pdfs.journals.lww.com/pain/2015/06000/Intrathecal_resiniferatoxin_in_a_dog_model__.8.pdf
    They are now doing the same experiment for humans in Phase 1 clinical trial.

    Thanks for mentioning TRPV1 in the brain... Very Good point, I don't want to be losing memories etc.! I have to look into this further. And no wonder in that dog experiment, they had to lift the dog's head at 30 degree angle or something while administering intrathecal RTX... I guess they didn't want it to f-up the brain...

    An even better approach I read somewhere is to inject it in each dorsal root ganglion. Even less systemic side effects than intrathecal.

    But that's too bad if I can't do intravenous because that means I would need someone to do spinal injections... I would probably need to find a corrupt medical professional who would agree to do such a thing :<<br />
    Does anyone know if there is a vehicle-type technology that could carry Capsaicin to the spine even after being injected intravenously? I know they do this in gene therapy, where they put a miRNA in a viral vector and programme it to go to a specific dorsal root ganglion if injected in the corresponding peripheral area. Can something like that be done with Capsaicin so I could do this all by myself?


    @arkcon10
    I'm finding mixed reports on Capsaicin causing acute pain or not when administered intravenously... For all other routes (intradermal etc.) it seems to definitely need anesthesia beforehand
  • JordygordyJordygordy July 2016
    ok let me just point a very big issue: apnea. as in cessation of breathing. if you do it I'd like to be there, not only to satisfy me scientific curiosity , but as a rescuer in case anything goes wrong (I'm a respiratory therapist so i deal with that all the time) if you get together on this and make something happen, contact me! 
  • opiopi October 2016
    Hi guys...
    Do you know where I could get human-grade Capsaicin either in a liquid / cream / patch etc. form?
    the strongest version available for human use as of now is the Qutenza Patch (8% capsaicin, Rx.)
    I can't really use that for my project because they are expensive and you have to have a doctor apply it on you at the hospital anyways.
    If I buy OTC capsaicin (which is too weak), is there a way I could purify(?) and turn it into something stronger at home? Or even using... hot chili peppers?
    Or is it simply better to use lab-grade capsaicin bought from Sigma? They only have stuff made for lab animals I guess, so I'm not very enthusiastic to use it on myself... But if you guys think it would be fine on humans, because, well, Sigma only sells highest quality stuff or whatever, then I might give it a try. I would need Lidocaine or similar, too, not sure if that's sold OTC, to numb the area first...
  • JupiterJupiter October 2016
    Well, interesting idea. I don't know much about that specifically, but I can say, if a topically applied cream could have a near complete numbing effect then it could be useful. Depends how expensive it is I suppose, and what side effects there may be (such as long term recovery issues (like never recovering completely)) compared to injected numbing agents.

    Will be watching the thread.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul October 2016
    Ok so yes and no on where to get it. A friend of mine found and bought some liquid capsaicin for consumption while in college.....needless to say it wasn't consumed but the bottle ended up empty. It is able to be found but I'm not sure where exactly. My suggestion is a hot sauce shop (yes they exist). Also this was bought somewhere around Waterville,Maine,USA.
  • eggiteggit October 2016
    http://www.hotsauce.com/16-Million-PURE-Capsaicin-Crystals-1-0ml-p/hsc-16-million-crystals1.0.htm

    Some quick googling produced some high concentration capsaicin "food additives". I couldn't find much info on actual %'s and claims are probably not regulated in the same way that the medical industry is.

    EDIT: If that scoville* claim is accurate 9.6m looks to be about 60% concentration, but that doesn't really sound right to me.

    You should be able to make your own extract fairly easy too, but you won't have a precise % that way either.

    *The scoville scale is incredibly inaccurate, and depends a lot on how it was tested.
  • opiopi October 2016
    thanks guys... I guess the best would be if i could find a way to make injectable capsaicin. I'm wary of injecting capsaicin made for consumption. Reminds me of the woman who injected vegetable oil into her face as DIY plastic surgery... a very bad result.
    There was a biotech company developing injectable capsaicin for humans a few years ago, but they went bankrupt :(
  • BoboTheEpicBoboTheEpic October 2016
    This entire thread makes me think of "makes my blood boil" "feels like my blood is on fire" and such. Nooooo thank you. Although it could be interesting to discover pain receptors in places of the body you'd never felt before.
  • Chase561Chase561 October 2016
    if for some reason you actually do this, holy shit be careful. I'm hearing the blood on fire vibe too, and if this works it could still be one of the most painful experiences youll ever have, ever.
  • c00p3rc00p3r October 2016
    i have taken liquicaps of Capsaicin as an hunger controller, it did suppress appetite but some side effects were varying degrees of heart burn, taken continuouslyi believe that it might possibly lead to ulcers but i can't really imagine injecting it myself, are there other possible chemical choices that aren't so destructive?