Magnet or NFC tag as first implant?
  • AerisAeris July 2016
    Hi!

    First a little introduction: I'm a robotics major based in Montreal, Canada. I've had an interest in prosthetics, haptics and general integration of technology in the human body for a while. I had thought of getting a RFID tag a few years back, but nothing very concrete until now. I've been reading this forum and it convinced me to get a first implant.

    I hope I can bring something useful to the community, my big strength is 3D modelling, plus I have access to a pretty good 3D printer via work so if any of you need help with that, hit me up.

    Now onto the main subject:
    I'm interested in getting both a magnet pair in my left hand and an NFC tag. I rank both equally in terms of usefulness to me.

    Should I get the magnet or the tag first?
    The tag seems like the best choice to me, considering the applicator and the fact that m31 magnets are out of stock, but perhaps I'm misguided.


    Also, I think there isn't, but is there an estimate for the m31's being back in stock?
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith July 2016
    Welcome. Personally I think the NFC is better as a first implant. The procedure is easier and healing is faster. 

    Plus like you noticed NFC chips are much easier to source than safe magnets (for more info about magnet availability read this thread http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/1569/).

  • Id say magnet for exactly the reason alexsmith said. Also welcome.
  • ZerbulaZerbula July 2016
    Welcome welcome @Aeris! :D

    Capsule injections are very easy to work with, a great place to start. A lot easier than the surgical process for implanting a magnet if you're new. Would highly suggest studying up on both, but do the tag first. ^^

    Speaking of, you might have fun with this thread, perhaps you might have interest and ideas. :o

    http://forum.biohack.me/discussion/1591/brainstorming-a-possible-injector-for-nfc-implants-and-maybe-other-implants-as-well


    Keep us updated on things, we love reading people's stories and growing knowledge. Just don't make the same mistakes that have already been established to be bad. Please ask questions, and there's buckets of things to read. ^^
  • AerisAeris July 2016
    Quick related question:

    While it wait for the NFC tag/magnet, is there a point in glueing a magnet to my nail? I've seen it being suggested and giving some degree of magnetic sense, but is that true?

    I have access to a variety of non-biocompatible magnets I can glue to my finger easily (Including 3x1mm). Is there a preferred format?
  • AerisAeris July 2016
    Oh and also, before I implant something useless in my hand, if I get the xNTchip, I can read, write to it using only my phone (LG G4, has NFC support) right? Unlike the xEM, I wouldn't need other equipment?

    Sorry for all the questions, I'd much rather not fuck this up.
  • Some phones can but some also have horrible read range. The rfid one would require a seperate device.

    Many people have suggested it like you said. I would try it no harm done if it doesnt work.
  • Also dont hesitate to ask questions. The only bad question is the one you dont ask.
  • AerisAeris July 2016
    Alright! I'll be ordering the NFC tag later tomorrow.

    Is the pain management kit recommended for an injected implant? Seems painful, but not not nearly as much as a magnet... If possible I'd rather save the money for later.
  • ZerbulaZerbula July 2016
    it won't produce the same sensation, but it works off at the same merit. ^^

    Not physically touching nerve dense material is going to reduce the Sensation that you feel, but it is a pretty good proxy just to get an idea of what it's like.

    the fingernails a very stable place to put it, but for receptiveness maybe on the pad? :o


    Don't worry about the PMK for an injection. it's too quick to be 'necessary'. ^^
  • Most of the initial pain goes away once you get into the skin. I wouldn't worry about the pmk.
  • Dr_AllcomeDr_Allcome July 2016
    @Aeris I've experimented with glueing to the nail, and skin (tip/end of finger).

    The nail gives much less sensation.

    Both have the problem that the glue does not last long and after a few days it will come off.

    Make sure you clean and dry the nail (or skin) really well before glueing or the glue will fail in a matter of hours.

    You can buy nail glue but it's basically just cyanoacrylate which worked just fine.


  • scruffyscruffy July 2016
    Best way to show people magnets that I have found it 2 larger neodymium magnets on either side of a finger 1 on the nail the other holding it. Putting a car battery on charge with the charger and you can feel it, much more intense than the smaller implant.
  • eggiteggit July 2016
    What all do you guys do with your NFC tags? I bought some NFC tags a while back and played with them for a week, but then never used them again.

    About the only thing I can think of that would be useful is unlocking your phone with it, but that seems more cumbersome than just entering a lock code.
  • autumnautumn July 2016
    My office uses RFID tags for building control. Currently negotiating with HR to see if they'll add a custom tag to the system.
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith July 2016
    @autumn  what type of tags? you might just be able to copy it to an implant 
  • I got the building to put my access card on my tag while I was working in Maine.

    @eggit mostly access doors but they are implanted so it's really not cumbersome. I'm going to be (I know I say that a lot but I will) making my truck access through my chip.
  • CarlosCarlos July 2016
    First post, I just joined and am interested in all the topics, particularly the RFID/NFC implant.  I have the implant, just need to find someone to install it.

    "What can you do with it?"  I'm currently installing RFID door control systems at a couple of company locations, so I want to use it with that.  I also have the Samsung RFID door lock at home, and am trying to find a suitable reader system for the garage doors and to disable the alarm system with it.

    I'm hoping I can clone my datacenter access card into the implant.  That should be interesting, when the guards see me open doors without using a card.  I hope I don't get tazed.

    Keep in mind that there are many variations of RFID, and most door control systems are not the NFC variety!  The high-end implant from Dangerous Things is 13.56 MHz ISO 14443/Mifare compatible, but it's actually very hard to find a door control system that uses that.  It's taken me many hours to learn about all the details, and I already started with a very good understanding of the basic tech.

  • autumnautumn July 2016
    @AlexSmith we use these tags: https://www.hidglobal.com/products/cards-and-credentials/hid-proximity/1346

    I think you're right, I probably could clone it. For some reason I had it in my head that I could use it for multiple applications if they added it to the system instead....but I could just as easily program anything I use personally to recognize the tag on my keyfob.
  • Xaion27Xaion27 August 2016
    ok so what is the difference between tag types? is it purely the frequency? Im trying to decide witch one to get.

  • NLmaxNLmax August 2016
    @Xaion27 , Well there are a few differences.
    (I'm doing this on the top of my head so excuse me if i don't get every value correct).

     You have NFC which works on 13-ish Mhz and RFID which usually works on 125khz, so you need to decide what you want to put on the chip to decide which one you want inside you.

    NFC chips like the xNT works with your phone for example and can store 888bytes. Many people store URLs or Vcards on there. I for example have 2 xNTs both with my Vcard on them, just to fill them. I'm still waiting for a project to do with the second one.

    I'm currently in the waiting for a shipment which will let me make an implant that has RFID in it, so I can use it on my frontdoor of my buildig .
    The door uses RFID on 125khz, those tags usually don't store much information on them. Mostly their UID( Unique ID) is programmed in the doors to choose which is allowed to open the door.
    RFID is in that way more secure as you need to copy the UID instead of just some bytes that are stored on NFC.
    If you do some research about NFC you will see that many types of cards have been cracked, like public transport cards which use NFC and had amounts of money on them. Which would make it suitable for increasing it without actually spending money, just changing values.

    The biggest difference is that NFC stores more than RFID and the difference in frequency. So you need to decide what you want to do with the implant before you order an implant.

    I hope this helps and if I forgot something , someone else might fill in :)

  • NLmaxNLmax August 2016
    @autumn might want to invest in a RFID copier and some tags or implants that allow to have their UID changed multiple times, as far as I know RFID is mostly programmed on UIDs. So copying your key UID to your implant would do the trick?


  • Xaion27Xaion27 August 2016
    Thanks for the clarification! I'm not sure how to tag people XD
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul August 2016
    Sorry late to this thread I'd say rfid. Easier a
    To do alone and has more applications right out of the gate.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul August 2016
    Sorry late to this thread I'd say rfid. Easier a
    To do alone and has more applications right out of the gate.
  • AerisAeris August 2016
    Good news, I should be implanting my NFC tag this weekend with a friend!