Reverse age by Plasma transfusion
  • JamesXJamesX June 2016
    Hi :)

    I found this site while using Google to keep up to date on the latest GDF11 and blood plasma ageing research, just curious to see if anyone within these forums is interested in reversing the ageing process ?

    What I have discovered so far is that GDF11 does after some conflicting results due to reagent issues appear to be one of (if not the most) important proteins responsible for re-activating the human body to repair itself at a faster rate and hence return one to a more youthful state.

    However one thing I am concerned about is, that this is still not absolutely certain and I think there must be a lot more proteins and hormones, etc within young blood that causes one to revert to youthful state, also some proteins/hormones that are increased with age that may need cancelling out in addition to just GDF11 supplements; also and most importantly the latest research suggest the therapeutic dose of GDF11 required to rejuvenate oneself is 0.5mg/Kg which at current prices would be roughly £160,000 per week for 4 weeks of treatment based on frequency of injections and experiment time frame used in the mouse studies.

    So attempting to use GDF11 injections in my opinion would be very expensive and most probably not capture all the youthful factors required to healthily revert one to a youthful state, and that is if GDF11 is 100% verified as the master protein responsible for dictating ones age based on it's blood level.

    This leaves another alternative which is to obtain Blood Plasma from two volunteers twice per week, at a therapeutic dosage in line with regular plasma treatments which are carried out in Hospitals around the world all the time, so for someone weighing 80Kg this would equate to 1200ml of Plasma twice a week for 4 weeks duration, which in mouse studies was time enough to revert ones age. So each donor would donate 600ml of plasma twice a week and no closer than 48hrs between donations  in line with best practices.

    This would ensure whatever is in the young blood plasma is received by the recipient, so as yet unidentified factors would be included; this should be very safe as long as best practices are followed in that the worst case scenario is that it simply does not work... but all available information indicates results would be quick to materialize.

    Within the UK as far as I have been able to identify there is nothing illegal about investigating this approach, although it does raise eyebrows when discussed with people who are not educated within the medical profession or have amateur scientific tendencies.

    I have educated myself on Haematology processes, Blood/Plasma donation processes, Blood typing and cross matching etc... in fact read everything and anything I can on the internet to assimilate the required information to enable me to proceed with DIY Plasma donation trial to reverse ones age... for example I have a 3 channel Baxter IV pump, all IV supplies, blood matching/typing identification cards, health monitoring equipment, all sterile supplies necessary for safety, and most importantly Plasmapheresis filters rather than centrifugal plasma separation apparatus as it's technically superior and safer.

    Technically I'm ready to proceed but have no Plasma donor volunteers, and to be honest I haven't really tried to find any at this stage as I have other projects on the go so am often juggling time between them... I do talk to friends and colleagues about what I am doing but they are all roughly my age, which is 41, so are very interested but not suitable as donors; then I found this site and thought I may as well introduce myself and see what other people are doing and see if there is interest :)

    I have opted when the time comes to go the DIY route instead of just buying Blood Plasma which is readily available from suppliers from roughly £97 per 500ml, with suppliers able to provide from age, gender, and either same donor or pooled as required.... this is purely for safety reasons in that it would ensure the risk of contracting viruses would be greatly reduced and confidence of sourcing Plasma from compatible males below or as close to 21yrs old as possible would be ensured.

    Male donors only would rule out risk of TRALI reactions as although rare it only happens with female donor Plasma, most importantly there is a lot of examples documented on the Internet going back decades of Plasma sourced from reputable companies actually being contaminated... hence having two named donors on board the experiment would reduce risks greatly compared to sourcing Plasma commercially.

    I also think it would be best for donors and recipients to register and perform one Plasma donation at a reputable clinic such as The Red Cross before proceeding as volunteers for such an experiment as this would ensure donor criteria are met and all required tests are completed by the clinic which would ensure safety of the donor and recipient.

    I'd be very interested to receive feedback on the above to ascertain peoples opinions on if it's a viable experiment ?

    Kind Regards,

    James....
  • sanderdsanderd October 2016
    James,

    Have contemplated this very thing (41 male here). Not sure of the legality here in New Zealand though. Would like to hear where you are with this, and possibly see your research to keep from re-inventing the wheel. Message me through here and I'll forward an email address if you're interested in sharing.

    Don
  • JupiterJupiter October 2016
    Just a few thoughts...

    This whole plan relies on merely introducing the specific components into the blood stream being enough to rejuvenate the body as you're describing. I assume you've thought of that so I'll also assume that you wouldn't be suggesting such an idea if that wasn't the case. But I thought I should mention it just in case.

    Personally I'd think that the sooner you got started with such a thing the better. I assume the ultimate goal is to avoid "old age death" just as much as "old age frailty". As I'm sure you're aware there's. It really a single cause of death at old age, rather various parts of the body wear down and become more susceptible to any number of conditions and diseases that could also affect a healthy person in their 20s or 30s.

    I've done a bit of research myself lately (Wikipedia mostly) and it appears that typical "aging" (both the appearance and the frailty) is typically influenced by metabolism. Now I'm sure that (now that I've said that at least) you're thinking, "Why, yes. If you were to freeze someone they would stop aging." But my suggestion is that other things such as eating only as necessary, and not frequently exerting oneself, could also increase "youthfulness". Not just because of health benefits of not putting stress on the body or from not eating junk food, but also because of the resulting lower metabolism.

    I happen to be in your "target" range by the way. Early 20s. Not that I'm suggesting I could be a donor for your project. But I am interested in potential results, I figure the earlier one starts, the longer the treatment would be affective. (Not trying to avoid helping by the way, I'd probably consider helping if I were closer geographically, I don't figure shipping blood across the Atlantic would be feasible, or possibly legal.)
  • JordygordyJordygordy October 2016
    I've been following this for a while, mostly news articles from scientific magazines, basically you want to become a vampire. suck the blood out out of the young and inject it into yourself? haven't you Gen X'ers done enough to us millenials? you already destroy the global economy and housing market and now you're literally after our youth? whats nexts?!

    just kidding. 

    it is an interesting subject, you have to use people who are 25 or younger. im 24, i'll be a donor... for a price. (these student loans don't pay themselves!)
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul October 2016
    genxers can afford to pay for this :P
  • JupiterJupiter October 2016
    Never even heard the term "Gen X" before. Interesting. Anyways, yeah... probably wouldn't donate myself, but I would be interested in how significantly more effective this could be if you started as soon as leaving the optimal "donor age", that is, when turning like 26 or so, if you started the treatments then...

    Just speculating. Personally I'd sooner pursue some sort of machine based solution, just because I feel machines and technology are much more reliable and predictable than something like a blood transfusion. But I'd be open to considering both myself.
  • JamesXJamesX January 11
    Hi All,

    Sorry about the delayed response, I figured if anyone replied to this post I'd receive an auto generated email so I could respond but this did not happen and I only discovered the responses after Googling for latest updates in this area of research on the internet and clicking a link which bought me to my old post :)

    Since my post I have ascertained that the dosage of plasma required in the mouse studies to revert their age to normal was equivalent to one unit (230ml) of plasma twice per week for a month for a human which means only a single donor would be required, which is nice; and that in recent tests plasma from 18yr old humans was used to rejuvenate mice so it makes sense to replicate this by requiring donors around 18yrs old, or possibly 19yrs old but not younger as it would be nice to avoid factors in plasma responsible for puberty development entering a recipient who has already been through puberty for fear of kicking off that cycle of development again... and not older as I believe I read that close to 25yrs old factors in plasma drop sufficiently as to effect stem cell activity so would be no good for a proof of concept trial.

    I've been quite busy in my life recently so have not progressed with this trial but am again now making time to continue with testing so looking for 18 or 19 year old volunteers who may be interested in taking part and of course I guess a cash incentive would be in order so anyone interested please message me, also anyone considered mature feel free to message me if interested in either taking part in a wider study once proof of concept trial is complete or are just curious to ascertain the results.

    I'm sure this is being replicated by small groups all over the world so at some point in the very near future we'll see rejuvenation results hitting the internet and at some point in the not too distant future the proteins and any other factors responsible will be identified and a pill or injection regime will be created from some pharmaceuticals for a price and thus this period of experimenting with Plasma will be short lived before moving into a more mature period of development and treatment for old age.

    Exciting times :)


    Kind Regards,

    James...
  • HuguesHugues January 12
    I read about this in the news some weeks ago and now i must say your post makes me think.

    I'm 52 and have 2 teenagers at home within the "golden age bracket".

    How does one go about giving his/her plasma ? Or should i just take care of that while they sleep ? LOL.

    Not that i want to sell their plasma, i'm too selfish for that, i just want it for myself. Hey ! it's my kids.

    We don't have to care about blood type or other compatibility factors ?
  • JamesXJamesX January 12
    Hi Hugues,

    If you're teenagers are happy to help then I would advice first you and the donors go register with a blood donor clinic as they will then take you through the lifestyle questionnaire and take blood samples to run lab tests for blood typing and check for all relevant diseases and other factors that could disqualify a donor.

    Now once you all pass the tests this means the clinic has done all the required safety tests and you're good to go, and I would advice then attending at least once to donate blood plasma as plasma is restored within 48hrs so you'll recover quickly and this will give you an insight into the process.

    Once all done you can then verify from the clinic results if you are compatible, for example if your donor teenager blood plasma is compatible with you as a recipient, and I'd also advice purchasing some blood typing cards.

    The next step would be to either opt to pay a local clinic to extract units of plasma from your teenage donor for you, then pay a nurse to transfuse it.. do this a couple times per week for a month and you'll be young again; but as to date its only been done in the lab with animals the dosage of plasma is an educated guess at this stage so although all indications are that it would work if you find it does not then just change the dosage until it does work.

    ....or purchase all the required equipment yourself and educate yourself on how to extract plasma units from a donor using the plasmapheresis filter, IV pump, and all associates supplies... then administer the plasma to yourself, and again it is easier to get a medically qualified friend or colleague to help with the cannula setup etc as doing it on yourself is possible but its quite difficult with one hand.

    The basic process is the same as for a plasma transfusion with the only difference being that you'd be selecting the gender and age of donor so there is a wealth of training and process documentation available over the internet and I have found fantastic resources from NHS literature.

    If you are sufficiently trained it's a really safe procedure with little risk, and the worst that can happen is that it simply does not work and you stay your present age so nothing to lose really.

    So in a nutshell if you have the money pay professionals to do it for you, using your teenagers as donors would be easiest, but doing it yourself is also fine but you absolutely have to know what you are doing as getting the blood typing wrong can kill due to fatal reaction in the recipient.

    Another alternative is if say you did not have a donor available to Google and identify a local company that could ship you blood plasma and that you can state the required gender and age of donor, there are many available and I've found that in the UK and throughout Europe it's possible to buy plasma for £90 per unit so is really not expensive but me being me in that I do not want to take risks but instead manage risks this scares me in that I do not know for sure if the plasma would be genuinely from the age range requested and if it is contaminated.... I've ready hundreds of scare stories of people being infected from blood products from reputable companies due to processes not being followed correctly hence why I would opt to get a named and known donor on board as it just lowers the risks.

    Hope this helps.

    Kind Regards,

    James...
  • JamesXJamesX January 12
    ...oh and in addition to my previous post, if one is still concerned about diseases from donor plasma for example, you could opt to buy a standard home freezer that can freeze to -20 degrees which all should... then store the plasma in the freezer immediately once obtained... it can be safely stored for 12 months at -18 or lower temperature.

    This will allow you to ask the donor in say 3 months after donating to take say a HIV test and if it's negative you can then be absolutely sure there is no HIV present, as there is always little windows of time from infection of any disease to where it will actually show in a test and the ability to store the plasma then run further tests beyond the window period would be 100% proof of negative transmission... yeah I know I'm probably being paranoid but again if risks can be minimised then why not for the price of a freezer :)

    Cheers, James...

  • HuguesHugues January 12
    thanks James, interesting.
    I will discuss this with my doctor at my next check up, he has an opened mind.

    Maybe i missed that part: if it works, how long does the effect last ? One has to re-do the transfusion every month ? year ?
  • I love the idea of rejuvenation/anti-aging/living forever.  I really want to see it realized and be able to live for an exceptionally long time and complete all the things that I want to complete.  Anyways I'd love to hear more about how this goes and the outcome.

    I would be willing to donate some plasma/blood (I'm in the range) but I'm a little far away geographically (across the pond).  Well I hope you get some plasma and run the experiment, remember to update us on the outcome.  I will be excited to see it.
  • JamesXJamesX January 13
    Hi Hugues,

    I read that within one of the mice experiments an old mouse was rejuvenated by young mouse plasma and once the one month period of plasma injections were completed the mouse continued to age normally again so it appears to be like winding a clock back in that once you finish winding it back it will continue to tick tock forward again as normal... which makes sense if the young plasma completely re-writes the recipient DNA Methylation pattern back to a youthful state again.

    The mouse lived an additional 5 months beyond normal mice life span so although I don't know mouse to human year translation I think from memory the article stated it was equivalent in human years to a person living to the ripe old age of 208.

    Perhaps this procedure could be repeated every couple years to keep you more or less within a fixed age range.


    Hi RealityWizard,

    If you lived this side of the pond that would have been fantastic, not to worry though as I'll keep you updated on progress via this discussion thread; if you ever in London then definitely get in touch :)


    Kind Regards,

    James....
  • _Larry__Larry_ January 13
    @JamesX I am attempting my dad into giving this a go. I doubt I will be successful but he is really hating going grey and losing hair so that might be a selling point. I wonder if it would have any effect on hair color?
  • JamesXJamesX January 13
    Hi Larry,

    Yes I believe it would and it would also restore any missing hair, but this would be a side effect of being rejuvenated.

    Balding is not due to losing hair follicles, the hair follicles are still present in a bald person it's just that they are not getting the message to grow hair again, and hair follicles grow in patterns over time so for example the hair currently growing will eventually drop out and that follicle will go dormant for a time while other previously dormant follicles will awake and grow hair.

    Going bald appears to be a result of the dormant hair follicles failing to awake upon their turn to grow hair again... which is in turn a result of ageing, hence rejuvenation will resolve this.

    This has been seen in mice when treated with young plasma in that they became young and lean again with their fur becoming vibrant in colour and fuller as one would expect in youth.

    Hope this helps.

    Kind Regards,

    James...
  • HuguesHugues January 13
    Things to keep in mind also, the procedure is obviously like many things not risk free:

    Adverse Effects of Plasma Transfusion:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356109/

    Article is from 2012 and I guess we better understand and control these effects. Interesting to read that infections is not the main factor and are actually rare.

  • CathasachCathasach January 15
    There's a startup doing this already. LINK

    Only 8 grand a pop.
  • JamesXJamesX January 16
    Hi Hugues,

    Thank you for providing the very informative link.

    There are risks that anyone wishing to do this either themselves or as part of a trial need to be aware of and manage accordingly, nothing in life is risk free but risks can be managed and reduced if best practices are followed.

    Certainly although I have and continue to do everything possible to minimise risks with this proof of concept trial, on weighing up the statistical probability of experiencing adverse effects against the absolute certainty of progressing into decrepitude and suffering the slow and gradual physical and mental deterioration that entails the risk of adverse effects is one I'm willing to take when the reward for taking such a small step would be to return to youth :)


    Hi Cathasach,

    Thank you for the link, I had spotted this company a while ago but I'm not confident their methods would result in complete rejuvenation as I think they are primarily focused on identifying the protein changes associates with introducing young plasma into an older recipient and not fully progressing treatment to such a degree as to allow full rejuvenation.

    I could however be wrong but that was what I read ages ago when they first launched their clinical trials and I haven't followed up on them since; also I already have the medical supplies and apparatus required to immediately proceed with the proof of concept trial with the exception of a blood plasma donor so is not worth me paying the $8000 fee.


    I have a feeling 2017 will be an exciting year.

    Kind Regards,

    James...
  • _Larry__Larry_ January 16
    If you were exceedingly rich I see not reason someone wouldn't give that startup a shot. If you notice any good effects you could just go on a plan for like 4 times a year or something. And people say that rich people don't have magic anti-aging drugs... :)