Paintball War Discussion
  • CassoxCassox April 2016
    The theme of Grindfest 3 is going to be the nature of man. It's going to explore violence and war from a number of angles as it relates to grinding. Assuming the emergence of some truly useful grinds, I think it's inevitable that augmentation will be used at some point as means of waging war. How, if at all, can we affect this? Are there grinds that would minimize the emergence of violence? There's a lot to explore here.

    This began as a sign up for the Paintball war that will be happening next year at Grindfest 3 but it was quickly derailed. In order to remedy this, the point of this thread has been altered and a new sign up post made. Use this thread to discuss potential rules or whatever you want.
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    This... This sounds evil...



    C_C  

    Will vehicles be allowed? :o And also, when you say 'rules'... 'Paintball war'... is this just conventional paint ball war, or like, "anything goes" paintball war where we just cant kill each other? Like... Is mace going to be fair game? ETC.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul April 2016
    Why....why so far away....
  • CassoxCassox April 2016
    Zerbula.. You ve got the right idea.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    Can I have the date as soon as it is set? I want to get time off as far in advance as possible....
  • Same. You had me at "Paintball". And forget mace... I was thinking something along the lines of aerosolizing r-NGF... With mace. Although I'm not sure I'll be able to make it, unless it's literally in 12 months time or after. And will it be held in the day, or night? I'd be down for a night-time war. Also, I know the idea is to be sadistic, but please, nobody be that guy and use marbles instead of paintballs... That sort of thing can kill people. (Although marbles are probably cheaper...) I know the police have these wicked capsaicin-powder filled paintballs that they use sometimes. 

    Also, are we supposed to bring our own weapons? Or will the guns be provided?
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    I wounded if a fluid would be better....
  • For the NGF? But then I have to actually touch someone with it... And that won't end well...
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    In b4 someone brings in acoustic weaponry (see: mini LRAD) and trap holes become a thing...
  • BirdMachineBirdMachine April 2016
    Looks like I finally have an excuse to get my hands on a drone and learn how to make it pew pew :)
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul April 2016
    Haha I'm loving this. Thanks @zerbula All I'm thinking of now is the sound gun that makes people sick (not the lrad one).

    I'm thinking frozen PB
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    The possibilities are endless.

    :3
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith April 2016
    Can anyone borrow a water cannon? what about high intensity light? flashbangs would probably be taking it too far, but even powerful strobe lights could be weponzed... speaking of which, I know dazzlers are banned by the UN, but do we care about that?
  • I've got a pretty powerful camera flash that I used in a game of man hunt once. Hand held, but the poor chap I used it on dropped to the ground. Didn't know what hit him. Sadly, it's not working at the moment.

    As long as it's not permanent blindness, I think it's fine.
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    I think rules of engagement should dictate any utilised system, while intended to cause discomfort or harm, should explicitly NOT be allowed to risk permanent injury (on a reasonable scale).

     Like... no using ball bearings instead of paint balls, or using explosives/heavy gauge pneumatics to fire said paintballs/other projectiles.

    I do have an air cannon that adapts to a schrader valve, and can rip apart 3/4" plywood with AA batteries at very easily attainable pressures via bicycle pump. But that kinda draws the line of "I want to HURT them, not kill them" >~<

    Please design things (If designing) to cause EXTREME DISCOMFORT, or if damage, TEMPORARY DAMAGE. No permanents please.

    Just to throw out what I think is reasonable... With that being said...


    Again, hugely anticipating trap holes. ^^
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    What about paint ball pnummadic shot guns? Like 1 1//OD PVC and a air tank?
  • Tasers? Cattle prods? Dual-wielding electric-fence lines as whips? kerosene-soaked bullwhips lit on fire?
    Might even go so far as a high-powered infrared flash or strobe for some heat-based torment. 

    Also, @Zerbula Who's digging those trap holes? 
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    All of these sound reasonable. @Johndoe, I mean like... things that wouldn't shotgun projectiles. Things that would make projectiles tear people open. Badly. >~<

    @TheGreyKnight Probably yours truly, with the aid of gasoline powered tools.  ^^ Unless someone wants to run in with a tractor. :D

  • Well, I'm not recommending it, but you can use rock-salt and blanks with a shotgun, and that's totally non-lethal, but it'll hurt like hell. Scare the hell out of people too.

    Also, Just saying this now... No Punji Traps. Or caltrops. Lego bricks with pushpins superglued in the middle are... Acceptable, I suppose.
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    That would... Really be scary...

    Imagine a pit filled with adhesive. like industrial floor adhesive, like half a foot deep.... Falling into that would... really really suck, you'd just... Blah that sounds nasty. >~<

    Mix this with say, a sulphur bomb. 



    In before we see snare traps tied to vehicles to drag people after getting caught.



    Honestly, Legos should be internationally against all laws of warfare. There's no way that's acceptable. :L
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016

    No let's not those things could break a bone if at point blank....
  • Half a foot sounds a bit generous. My shoes have almost been ripped off my feet by about 2-3 mm of carpet adhesive. Half a foot... The fumes alone could knock you out. And that sounds like hours worth of cleanup work. If you diluted it, and mixed rope and other entangling materials in, it'd be really interesting. I also kinda want to just put a bit on a board and place it in high-traffic area of the field. Seeing someone face-plant whilst attached to a 3'x3' piece of plywood would be comical.

     A really heavy-duty plastic tarp coated in the stuff would be more realistic. And even if they got out of the pit, they'd be impaired by the tarp. And confinement freaks a lot of people out, too. A net laced with adhesive and pepper spray, with weights attached that gets tossed or dropped on top of someone. 

    You can always use an air-cannon system for a salt-shotgun, rather than gunpowder. 

    Biggest question I have at the moment: @Cassox Are we playing non-contact?
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    With the plywood I have been there done that, it can work to your advantage really quick if you stay calm, as for the tarp I think we need a rule that the glue must be soluble.... Unless you want a waxing....
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul April 2016
    Capsaicin filled water balloons with caterpults would work wonders.
  • chironexchironex April 2016
    I'll just leave this here..... LINK
  • @chironex if you took an acrylic plastic, dissolved it, and did the whole process to introduce graphene, would the final product, if polished, come out clear enough to see through?
  • chironexchironex April 2016
    no it'd be jet black
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    Note to self bring dodge Soviet era military grade gas mask....
  • Aww darn... I'll bet it'll still make a badass riot shield. 

    Anyone want to try building a Pulsed Energy Projectile system, or electric bear trap-style devices? A freeze ray(or maybe just system that sprays very cold water, or slush)? 

    I'm starting to get the feeling that the defenders have a really significant advantage in this one... 
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    How about both attack then we have targets on our chest and those make points, team with most points wins the day....
  • kuroro86kuroro86 April 2016
    Defence have always the advantage, if they know the terrain and have time to prepare. As I know in some war game they give more people in attack than in defence. Or better weapon or more ammo.  Depending on the first two variables and the size of the area.
  • CassoxCassox April 2016
    The reason it's one way is so that people can focus on one or the other. Defense could still have excursion teams but I'm not sure if there is going to be enough people. General rule is that weapons effect can't last longer than the game.

    The thing I'm really trying to solve is the role of armor. I mean, paintballs don't penetrate sure. So pushing a big box with holes for guns across the desert seems a dumb easy solution. If I make an armored suit then can I just walk into camp? I haven't thought of a way around this one. It almost seems like we should have a uncovered torso rule or something.
  • Armor only does so much. And it may seem like a good idea, but what happens when that box tumbles into a pit or a trench? Or runs into an immobile barricade? Just drive some sturdy wooden/metal poles into the ground, with 5 feet extending above the ground, spaced about... 2 feet apart each. Maybe 3 feet. In the time it takes for you to get that box over the poles, you'll have been shot to hell. And if you wear armor and carry a box... Good luck making it very far... You'll be exhausted in half an hour. Maybe an hour. 

    Fatigue is a big issue. As is heat(even at night). Also, torso shots are... Not really that bad. The 5 N's that hurt the worst in paintball are as follows: Nuts, (K)Nees, Noggin, Neck, and (K)Nuckles. 

    Unarmored torso seems like the most reasonable way to go about it. Another option would be making it harder for people to accomplish the objective in armor? Maybe something like adding 10 pounds worth of ankle-weights, weights in a backpack, etc. per armored area? Or put the flag in a tree (Or on a pole) 10 feet off the ground. Even if you're wearing light armor, that's still like... 40 extra pounds when all is said and done. You'll get jumped by the people who aren't wearing armor, tied up, and interrogated. Maybe tortured a little, if that's what you're going for.  

    Also, Have you ever seen what frozen paint balls will do @cassox? I've seen cracked face masks, holes ripped in plywood... Armor or no, they're gonna hurt like hell. Honest show of hands, who's going out and buying/making full body armor, or even a simple set of greaves, bracers, a vest, and maybe some other assorted parts? If you buy it, that's gonna cost a lot. Body armor isn't cheap. And the stuff they have for regular paintball is... Not going to do a whole lot in this kind of match. And to all of the people thinking of duct taping pillows to themselves... Well, that just isn't going to end well..

    As far as the general rule goes, basically, no maiming? And is contact allowed?(I.E. Can we use melee weapons, martial arts, or go tie someone caught in a snare up and throw them in a "Jail".)

    Also, can we call it Pain-ball? Or does someone have a less punny name?
  • glimsglims April 2016
    Rules on biologicals?

  • kuroro86kuroro86 April 2016
    @TheGreyKnight if the objective is simply to stop paintball even modified ( and I think you guys should really decide  on what mod are allowed). Building a simple armour that would protect chest and delicated wouldn't be a problem. At least not for me. Light steel, Aluminium , or even cardboard , cut and conpressed. Or more simple socks rolled. It would be a good extra protection with not that much added weight or movement issue. 
    And it could be done under the mimetica. 
  • What do you mean by "biologicals" @glims ? Are we talking chemicals? Or bacteria/viruses? Like drugging the enemy team's water?

    Also, @kuroro86 that's why I suggested the extra weight rule. Frozen paintballs are also on an entirely different level from normal ones...
  • chironexchironex April 2016
    um, i think you meant to tag glims
  • kuroro86kuroro86 April 2016
    @Cassox Taking into account the environment is Desert more than a defense/ Attack but a transport/Intercept type of game. You give a map of a large terrain and give to Transport team a point to bring a package ( flare gun or really loud whistle )  to a point. And if they to in X:XX time they win. If the package is used they loose and Time is taken. 
    Than swap team and repet. The one with less time wins or that bring package in spot. 

    BTW I think that rules on Contact and "torture" should be decide before hand and take into account different possibility. 
    I think we had already are good does of amateru sadism : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment 
  • kuroro86kuroro86 April 2016
    @ The greyknigth I now the effect of frost and frozen liquid on hard surface. In my opinion it would be to dangerous for a game. Naturally it depend on what is frozen. 
  • Your pictures are a similar color, darn it! Transport would definitely make for a great match... With the "offense" being the transporters, and the defense being the raiders.

    I think it would be interesting to incorporate magnetic implants or something like that along the way. 
  • kuroro86kuroro86 April 2016
    Your pictures are a similar color, darn it! 


    Eh? ( confused ) 
  • Meaning glims and chironex. I saw grey, and didn't look closer. 
  • kuroro86kuroro86 April 2016
    Plus how will you define armor and the extra weight it has to have as punishment. To me it is obvious people are going to bring some extra defense , knowing that you are going to be shoot at. And what about gas mask or similar , how are you going to count them ? 
    I think is best that everybody brings extra gear. Depending on limitation you put it could be quite cheap to protect your self. 

    Edit: Defence is a part of warfare as much as attack , not gearing up is as not bringing any gun to a battle, it is pretty much pointless. 
  • ElectricFeelElectricFeel April 2016
    I usually run in an M15 gas mask, BDUs and a hoodie with knee pads and boots for airsoft.

    Anyone who's done significant movement in a gas mask will tell you how difficult it is; it's like having asthma unless you have one of the wide aperture filters. Your breathing is very restricted. I personally run without a filter until there's a cause for it, then pop a filter.
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith April 2016
    hmmm what's the rule on animal weapon systems? can anyone source some fire ants?
  • ZerbulaZerbula April 2016
    Bullet ant nest right on the flag. Defenders win. X_x

    Will not try.jpg
  • I have so many fire ants here... I might be persuaded to mail a box over, but I'm not bringing it in my luggage...

    For your own safety, do not utilize spiders of any sort, or there will be problems...
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    This is escalating quickly.... We need to set some ground rules....
  • AlexSmithAlexSmith April 2016
    @TheGreyKnight btw, I'm from Australia, we have quite a few interesting spiders here, very tempted to bring some >:)
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul April 2016
    Ok now I'm glad I live too far for my broke ass since we are talking spiders
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe April 2016
    WE NEED GROUND RULES!! No explosives (including firearms) No projectiles that within reason could kill or maim someone (freak (spider related) accidents are okay....) No fire weapons (okay let's debate this one I am kinda pyro) no toxic chemical weapons no biological weapons (Why does that need to be said....) electric weapons including but not limited to teasers and cattle prods are allowed.

    Safety gear Z87 safety glass and some sort of face and head protection required....

    Sincerely,
    John Doe

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