Cognitive enhancement and sleep mod: Vasoactive Intestinal Polypeptide
  • CassoxCassox January 2016
    VIP is a neuropeptide with many different roles in the body. Most pertinent to us is its role in the suprachiasmatic nucleus; VIP is THE substance underlying our circadian rhythms. VIP has a peak and a trough each day, something like sands in an hour glass. Murine model research has shown that supraphysiological doses can act something like a reset button. Basically, once administrered your brain no longer know what time it is and looks to stimuli to determine what phase it should be in. So basically, your going to work tommorow night? Take a dose and (assuming it works, never been used in humans) your body is convinced its whatever time you decide. This has a lot of potential. Can be we change the duration of rhythms? Can we dose multiple times and make a 10 hour running pattern? A 36 hour running pattern? I don't know, but it very well could. Perhaps more interesting is its potential effect on cognition and memory.
    The available data is really mixed on its cognitive effects. There seems to be a short duration amnesia associated with it in the CNS. However, it reverses the effects of both scopolamine and induced rat alzheimers. In the long term, it seems to significantly increase memory formation/recall. The reason appears to be that it significantly increases the duration of both REM and SWS.. the periods when memory consolidation occurs. So, immediately amnesia because memory formation and consolidation can't co-occur.. long term benefits because from that point on you have very solid consolidation. Once again, this is somewhat speculative. I'll have a post up within a day or two on Augmentationlimitless.com with a shit load of data.

    In terms of safety, it's.. an unknown thing. The peripheral effects are pretty crazy. Hypotension to the point of death, diarrhea to the point of electrolyte imbalance and death. All your exocrine glands go into overdrive. Females have like 80% greater secretions etc. A few human trials with the stuff have occured. For example, theres a study on the effects of inhaling the stuff to treat a lung/resp condition. However; it's never been administered in humans directly to the CNS. The way we are doing this is via the intranasal route. It has been shown an effective route via isotope tagging when administered in conjunction with some other stuff that you can read about in the write up if your interested.

    The first trial of this substance is slated to occur on the 29th of this month. Cyberlass is taking point against all my advice to the contrary. Ha.I'll also be dosing as will Proteus Mark. We have a lot of stuff in place. Crash team and whatnot although I really doubt any really bad event is going to occur. This is imho the most promising nootropic type chem I've seen. So, we talked about it and thought we'd start recruiting for the phase two trials. Of course, this stuff isn't terribly cheap. Assuming no one gets fucked up during the first phase, we're looking for people interested in the next run. We'll have purchased most of what needs buying except for VIP itself. The cost is around 200 for an appropriate dose. Keep in mind this isn't a short term chemical. One dose and your looking at potentially 30 days or so of action in the CNS. Let me know if your interested in participation. Also, this is being recorded by MTV for the Nootropics episode.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    This has bad idea written all over it, if it was possible I would join in on this I may be able to take part in the second trial. I would like to how ever avoid at all cost being recorded by MTV, would that be a problem?

    Sincerely,
    John Doe
  • CassoxCassox January 2016
    Oh totally. Second trial is totally disconnected from any tv shit.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    Okay is there anything else I that I should be aware of like no cell phones or computers? I do a lot of AV work so both those would be difficult....
  • CassoxCassox January 2016
    Nope, not an issue.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    Now I am curious why is TV a issue?
  • MagneticJacobMagneticJacob January 2016
    Are there any known limits to this, or is it comparable to current polyphasic sleep and sleep deprivation?
    And disconnected to tv is no film crews.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    Okay that makes sence I was thinking he meant no flashing lights.
  • MTSMTS January 2016
    This seems pretty cool, I'm gonna read into it some more.
  • cyberlasscyberlass January 2016
    @MagneticJacob the limits are unknown at this point as well as how it compares to polyphasic sleep and sleep deprivation but the research points to interesting possibilities. If VIP allows us to cue the body to be at a certain phase of awake or asleep it has the minimum potential to make atypical sleep patterns (shift work, polyphasic, jumping timezones) easy to adopt. Even further if we can drop straight into the deep sleep phase could we shorten the length of time we need to sleep without ill effects? Will there be a boost in cognitive function by having a better control of when memory consolidation happens? These are things that the trial is looking at. Although first we see if it is working in general and then we do the second round with refined criteria. For example I'm also curious how long the "longer lasting effects" are. Taking something once a week/month for the same benefit as a daily nootropic would be great. 
  • CassoxCassox January 2016
    The peptide got delivered today. Fantastic.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    Adding onto @cyberlass. Would there be any way to train the brain to do useful stuff while asleep? Like I tend to write most of my guitar riffs one of three times, when I am going to sleep, waking up in the middle of the night with what I am convinced it is the greatest song ever written on the guitar, or right when I wake up in the morning. I would like to know more or less ware those songs come from and why I cant write while I am practicing.
  • CassoxCassox January 2016
    Interesting. I hadn't considered twilight sleep induction. They used to use an amphetamine and a downer to induce it. I wonder if vip well be similar.
  • TheGreyKnightTheGreyKnight January 2016
    Well, Edison used to keep a journal. He'd hold a ball in his hand when he fell asleep, and if he had a dream, he'd drop the ball, which woke him up. He'd then write down his dream.
  • ChilliEyeChilliEye January 2016
    Read that Dali slept with a key between his fingers, over a plate on the floor, at point of nodding off it'd fall on the plate and wake him. Supposedly he felt this was the most creative brain state.
  • MTSMTS January 2016
    @JohnDoe have to second what you said, this happens to me quite frequently. Substances like kratom or opiates (nodding) have had interesting effects on music rendering while asleep or dreaming.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    @MTS
    Hum that's interesting, I actually am completely clean and suber so now I am wondering if there's not something in my diet....
  • MTSMTS January 2016
    @johndoe music producer here. I experience it while sober too, but with something like
    kratom its wven more vicid and I can remember the melodies and everything. It maybe dietary, but, you make music too correct? So it might just be something music makers experience.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul January 2016
    I don't have any insight for the music but I like to tinker and design stuff and almost all my ideas come to me to either while about to sleep or while asleep. I'll wake up and focus on what I was dreaming of to try and remember it. Usually it works but sometimes I know I had a great idea but can't remember what it was. I now have a notebook with sketches and math trying to work out kinks.

    On that note I bow hunt (no real bearing aside from state of mind) from a tree stand which I get in around 3-4am depending on the shooting times but well before sunrise. I'm normally still groggy and haven't even spoke or really eaten anything but I tend to have a lot of ideas/designs during that time. My last one was for a new style of arrow rest which I'm still trying to get right. My mind is generally quiet during that time until I get that idea which just kinda pops in there and I can't shake it the rest of the day (You should see my note books some time lots of sketches and plans).

    I hope that might help with narrowing it down. My thought is that there is low-no light which allows little to no distraction so you don't have your mind running circles like a child on too much sugar. Same with when you wake up it's still a quiet mind. I guess you could call it almost meditation.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe January 2016
    Yea I am thinking it's what's called flow state.... Here are some links:
    http://daringtolivefully.com/how-to-enter-the-flow-state
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-playing-field/201402/flow-states-and-creativity
    It make sense, but I feel left with more questions than answers. Running with what all three of us are saying it almost seems triggered more than entered.

    Sincerely,
    John Doe
    PS if this keeps up I think we should go start a new thread, lukeo has already asked about something similar.
  • MeanderpaulMeanderpaul January 2016
    @johndoe I agree new thread save this one.
  • CassoxCassox June 2016
    Hey hey. Anyone interested in taking part in the VIP project phase II please send me your weight in KG. We are determining costs today and I'll loop you into the discussion.
  • CassoxCassox July 2016
    Hey. So we have a pretty good sized group taking part in the next round of vip. The thing is. . We really need a control group. I'm hoping for at least 10 people. You'd just have to do some sort cognitive testing for about two months. These are the same tests the experimental group will be taking. It'll be all online tests. Sure would be helpful if anyone is willing to commit.
  • Dr_AllcomeDr_Allcome July 2016
    @Cassox, I'm in Oz but happy to discuss my medical stats in PM if distance is not a problem and you still need controls.

    I had planned to start NSI-189 and tDCS soon but I can pause them for a while in the name of science :)


  • aixreaixre July 2016
    If you still need controls I'd be happy to participate.
  • ZerbulaZerbula July 2016
    I would not mind being control sample at all, but the current situations prevent me from being stable enough. :c If this changes I'd be interested and I'll let you know. ^^
  • Depending on how often you need tests I'd be happy too.
  • puzbiks1puzbiks1 July 2016
    I would be glad to participate.
  • actiiactii July 2016
    I would be down to participate if you still need people
  • CassoxCassox September 2016
    Alright. So we've gotten tons of control data. The next round of administrations are happening Friday. Wish us luck. I'm rather excited as I think we have better measures this time around.
  • MTSMTS September 2016
    consider luck, wished
  • WyldstormWyldstorm September 2016
    For us with sleep disorders, this might be a better alternative to melatonine.

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