questions about DIY magnet implants?
okay, I'm new here (so, hello you all! nice to meet you!), since I recently got interested in magnet implants.
I'm totally a DIY person (in fact, that's why I came here - since you don't look like the crowd who screams "INFECTION RISK!!!" at the sight of a DIYer), so I want to do it myself.
I'm well aware that the safest magnets are the m31 coated in TiN, but apart from being quite expensive, they're out of stock 'till further notice.
I also know that the wiki says to stay away from sugru, mainly for the infection risks (right?), but apart from that, and assuming the magnet is first gold-plated, and then sugru-ed with a quite thick coat (at least 0.5mm on each side), would there be any other risks?, like, compared to sylicone or parylene? (I have to insist: apart from infection risks. it's my body, I know it well, and I know the chances of me getting an infection are slim). I may not be concerned about infection, but I definitely don't want to end up with metal poisoning or toxic things inside my finger...
also, I've read that heat degrades performance, but how much? I mean, would it be possible to get the magnet to a jeweler and have him gold-plate (or rhodium plate, whatever), it with a thicker coat? even if the magnet lost some strength, assuming I start with a N52... I should still feel it, right? (though gold-plating or rhodium-plating won't be cheap, but I wanna consider all my options).
I'm totally a DIY person (in fact, that's why I came here - since you don't look like the crowd who screams "INFECTION RISK!!!" at the sight of a DIYer), so I want to do it myself.
I'm well aware that the safest magnets are the m31 coated in TiN, but apart from being quite expensive, they're out of stock 'till further notice.
I also know that the wiki says to stay away from sugru, mainly for the infection risks (right?), but apart from that, and assuming the magnet is first gold-plated, and then sugru-ed with a quite thick coat (at least 0.5mm on each side), would there be any other risks?, like, compared to sylicone or parylene? (I have to insist: apart from infection risks. it's my body, I know it well, and I know the chances of me getting an infection are slim). I may not be concerned about infection, but I definitely don't want to end up with metal poisoning or toxic things inside my finger...
also, I've read that heat degrades performance, but how much? I mean, would it be possible to get the magnet to a jeweler and have him gold-plate (or rhodium plate, whatever), it with a thicker coat? even if the magnet lost some strength, assuming I start with a N52... I should still feel it, right? (though gold-plating or rhodium-plating won't be cheap, but I wanna consider all my options).
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anyway, would it work if it was in a thicker layer? like, thin things usually break easily, but if you add thickness, they start being tougher. I could go up to a mm thickness.. I would end up with a big magnet (since the smallest gold-plated ones I've seen are 3x1.5 mm), but that shouldn't be a problem as long as the coating is stable. right?
(okay, I get it, those are not the best idea, but I just want to be like, really sure that they're not even an option before deciding to spend more money on it)
I will try the heat and see for myself, since I want to learn. (I do have some larger magnets lying around to test)
as for the coatings, then a thick enough gold or rhodium plating, would work good? I'm not talking about autoclaves here, just the electroplating. I thought it was done at somewhat high temperature.
also, do I really need gold-plated magnets if I'm going to have them coated again? I ask 'cause I've seen smaller ones in Ni-Cu-Ni, yet nothing in gold...
anyway, thank you for your tips. this is starting to look good. especially if a jeweler can coat my magnet in gold or rhodium and make it mostly safe.
The idea behind the m31 is a coating as thin or thinner than parylene and more durable than silicone. The design is great but getting the actual manufacturing process down is more difficult than you'd think especially due to the size of the unit. I'm sorry that the m31s are taking so long but I'm sure you guys understand that they really do need to be perfect.
@cassox I know u mentioned this in another thread, but any luck getting in contact with the iron nitride magnet manufacturers?
anyway, I asked the jeweler about the gold plating. he said he really can't know how much a 5um plating (the thickest they do) would last inside the skin (I would have been surprised if he knew), but he wouldn't think it would last a lot. is like gold-plated jewelry, that sooner or later leaves the inner metal exposed.
also, he told me it would cost around €40-60, BUT, I think he may have misunderstood me and thought I was talking about cm and not mm. (I suspect most people don't ask for such small things to be plated, after all)
I also have to ask him about temperatures... I don't want the gold-plating to destroy the magnet.
so I wanted to ask you guys another couple questions.
1. what about epoxy-coating? I've found this: http://www.ebay.es/itm/161761672390 . would it last more than a thin gold plating? is epoxy safe? (as in, non-toxic).
2. assuming I decided to go with the jeweler gold-plating my magnet... would it be good to, in addition to the gold, add a thin hot-glue coat? like, very thin, just to protect the gold from friction. that way, even if the hot glue is compromised, I'd still have a thick-ish gold plating, so it wouldn't be toxic.
as for parylene, what would be it's pros and cons? is it stable enough? (when compared to, say, a thick gold plating).
2. "would it be good', no. there are more than 20 different kinds of base materials used as hot-glue. the list of additives is even longer. hot glue is certainly not bio-safe.
If you want something alternative you may want to explore things like uv-curing paint. Maybe, just maybe you can find something that's suitable for implantation.
BUT, if I look around, I may be able to locally find a reputable store which lists ingredients, and then check every ingredient toxicity...
you just gave me an idea. that thing is hard as hell, if I'm able to find a non-toxic one, I wouldn't even need the thicker gold coating.
THANKS!!!
It won't work in this case though because its very specific to something with a nickel undercoat.. something thats being phased out altogether.
In terms of the tests im using now/wish I could do now, ill make a post tommorow.
as for my body rejecting it... that's like rejecting a piercing, right? in that, there are no actual risks, except that you don't have the implant (or piercing) inside anymore... (oh, and you could end with a scar, but I'm not too concerned over getting a minor scar in my finger, you know...)
@Cassox: so, what would be a reasonable test to run at home? ... soak in saltwater? plain water? ... I'm not going to get anything too complicated just for testing... I better put it inside, and keep an eye on it.
as for the undercoat, nope, not nickel. I wouldn't be getting them to the jeweler for a thick gold plating, but I would get them already gold-coated. I'm not putting nickel inside my finger, that thing gives allergies.
as for the whole UV gel, yeah, I'm now really interested in trying it, if only for science. I mean, I WILL know if the cover breaks and the magnet is exposed to my flesh, right? (so I can rush to dig it out - yeah, I may be a little... hard on myself) ... and I'm not really worried about rejection, only risk is getting a scar... alright, I'll risk that.
so, if you have any tips, or any ingredients I should avoid 'cause toxicity, or anything... pleas, tell me.
@ightden: first, I kinda doubt that *any* magnet will last a lifetime. even TiN coated, it's not the same as solid titanium. like a gold ring lasts forever, but a gold plated one will last only a while.
as for waiting or not, I'm a violinist, so I wanted to use the christmas break to do it, and leave my finger a rest before having to play again. also, while this is not my main argument, I'm not made of money. yeah, I could save for an m31 (and maybe will), but if I can do this at half the cost, and be 80% as safe, for 50% of the time (i.e. say it will break after 5 years), then I'd prefer it this way. plus I'm a DIY person, I really don't mind risking a bit for a quite great benefit (be it in terms of money, or of learning what not to do).
but yeah, I may do it (not before being sure that the magnet hasn't a good chance of being exposed, mind you). if it rejects, well, I'll learn my lesson, and stick to m31s next time.
And nickle plus iodine gas makes nickle diiodide. There could have been not enough surface area tho....
Nickel Exposure Series 2